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Thread: Salvation for ATi Radeon owners!!!!

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada

    Salvation for ATi Radeon owners!!!!

    As all ATI Radeon owners know, Radeons (of any type) do not render fog in Thief2. Well I bring you the salvation you have been waiting for. There is a fix, that I just discovered! I have only confirmed that this works on my Radeon 8500 but I presume it will work on the others as well.

    I request that this be added to the technical FAQ for Thief promptly so noone need suffer any longer the loss of atmosphere that comes with having no fog. A news post on Thief-TheCircle would also be good.

    Steps to fix the fog:
    1) Download the program available here: http://www.rage3d.com/r3dtweak/
    2) Install it
    3) After the required restart, run the program and go to the Rage3D tweak tab. Double click "Direct 3D", then scroll down till you see the box "W Fog". Uncheck this box. Also make sure "Table fog", and "Z Fog" are both checked, and if they aren't, check them. Press OK.

    As I understand it, the W Fog feature of the Radeon doesn't mesh well with Thief2, and when Thief2 tries to use it, the result is no fog. However if the feature is disabled, Thief2 recognizes this and tries another kind of fog, namely table fog, which happens to work fine.
    Last edited by Northon; 29th Nov 2002 at 20:31.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: in a cardboard-box
    hmmm...I'll have to try that out. Dope! Now you all know I have an ATI! .
    Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
    Do not go gentle into that good night.
    Rage, rage against the dying of the light. --Dylan Thomas

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Florida, USA
    Tech support is so lame.... I e-mailed ATI just the other day about my Radeon (already have Radeon Tweaker installed) and got a standard computerised "did you try making sure it's turned on" type of message (you know, "Mr. Tech Support guy, my printer won't print" and he responds "Is it turned on?" and they respond "Doh! Thank you Mr. Tech Support Guy." Tech support automatically thinks that everyone is that dumb).

    I'll give this a try tonight and see if I can post an Update tomorrow about it (now I've got to re-insall Theif 2, oh well), that way people with Radeon 32MB SDR's will know at least if it works for them

    PHIL

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Finland
    Please bear in mind that the vast majority of people who call tech support ARE that dumb, so their behavior is understandable... ;)
    He who despises himself nevertheless esteems himself as a self-despiser.
    -- Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: in a cardboard-box
    Originally posted by Talgor
    Please bear in mind that the vast majority of people who call tech support ARE that dumb, so their behavior is understandable...
    Yeah, you just have to assume all people are stupid when your working in Tech support...though, that doesent mean that we on the other end have to be happy when we get stupid reply's...this is kinda off subject but I was in a small computer store the other day, with a friend, and we happened to glance apon this, (I'm still not sure what it is) this, thing that had this, weird shaped, funky blue box thing...it didn't look like any pc box that I had ever seen...and my friend, naturaly wondered aloud, "What is that!" And the guy behind the counter had the audacity to reply (with a snotty look on his face) "A Computer." Well, yes, I guess this is true, but, it was just the way he said it that made me turn around and walk out of that store...(havent been in there since).

    I hate stupid answers...

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Florida, USA
    Well, I installed and checked it last night... indeed disabling the W_Fog and making sure Table fogs are enabled fixed the lack of fog problem with my Radeon 32MB SDR (PCI) card. I left all the other DirectX Fog options on, so it's only the W_Fog that's the problem.

    As for the tech support issue.... last year when I converted my old Earthlink dialup account over to Cable (via Time Warner, the local provider for Earthlink) I had the hardest time getting things straight. The biggest problem being that every time I called them back (and I had to do it form a pay phone since I didn't have a home phone yet) they would start all over with the problem... now I'm getting the same thing via E-mail with HP over my scanner... sigh....

    I think it's time to buy an XBox for gaming and just replace anything that doesn't work with new (or used).

    PHIL

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: DC Metro Area
    I just tried this and it worked great! Now I have fog! Bwhahaha!

    I have a Radeon 9700, btw

    Now if I can just get the cutscenes to work, I'd be a happy taffer.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002

    Re: Salvation for ATi Radeon owners!! (fog fix)

    Originally posted by Northon
    3) After the required restart, run the program and go to the Rage3D tweak tab. Double click "Direct 3D", then scroll down till you see the box "W Fog". Uncheck this box. Also make sure "Table fog" is checked, and if it isn't, check it. Press OK.
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
    HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (whacks himself on the head with his blackjack while balancing on one leg and repeatedly kicking his own ass with the other)

    Sorry, that was about my reaction when I read your post and tried it out!

    Since I got my Radeon 8500 and had to learn that this expensive high-end card wouldn't render fog in a two year-old game, I kept downloading the newest drivers whenever they came out in the desperate hope that ATI would eventually include fog support, maybe by accident...
    I even wrote to the Catalyst support, only to get the same machanical answers mentioned above.
    My driver directory currently has a size of 122 MB. I even tried the XP drivers, hoping that they would behave differently. I downloaded several tweakers and tried all the fog settings...at least I thought so, because...

    What I didn't try all that time was to simply activate table fog and disable W fog! I'm so f***ing stupid!


    You can't imagine how much I thank you for that hint!


    A happy Bumbleson loading Precious Cargo.....

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Short addition:

    I tried the fog options with a tweaker and found out that I only get fog when table fog as well as Z fog are enabled (Z fog is disabled in my drivers by default).

    My system:

    Radeon 8500
    Catalyst drivers 02.4
    Win 98
    Thief II 1.18

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
    Originally posted by Bumbleson
    Short addition:

    I tried the fog options with a tweaker and found out that I only get fog when table fog as well as Z fog are enabled (Z fog is disabled in my drivers by default).

    Even though I have basically the same configuration as you, my Z Fog is enabled by default. However, you are absolutely correct that if it is disabled, the fog fix won't work. I'll add that to my original post. Thanks for noticing it!

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: 4044'31.03"N 11151'16.60"W
    What happened? Now that I have the tweak installed, nothing works properly!
    When I try to get into windows, my monitor goes blank, and a box pops up with an error:
    OUT OF RANGE
    30Hz-70Hz H
    50Hz-150Hz V
    ____________
    Current Rate
    92.4Hz x 220.7Hz


    Now, the only way I can get in Windows is through Safe Mode!


    BTW, I have:
    Win 98se
    Radeon 7200 32Mb

  12. #12
    BANNED
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Polishing G.W.Bush's braincell
    You've obviously been fiddling with the overclocking sliders, juts reset them to defaults.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: USA
    Something messed up your monitor's refresh rates.

    I'm not sure how to fix that in safe mode...

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: 4044'31.03"N 11151'16.60"W
    Venroth:
    Obviously, I can't change the overclock sliders if I can't even get into windows.
    Darkwarrior_II:
    There's nothing I can do in Safe mode, because all the support drivers needed to detect problems with devices don't get loaded in safe mode. So, I'm temporarily screwed UUUGGHH! Safe mode.... it's so horrible!!!



    BTW, it may not help that I have an *cough*eMachines*cough*

    EDIT:
    AAH Crap!
    Now, I'm getting a
    "indows Protection error. Please restart your computer!"
    Last edited by ataricom; 30th Nov 2002 at 21:46.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    You can reinstall the software for your card while in safe mode. I just did this myself yesterday, because my brother sort of fucked up my drivers while testing a non-functioning graphics card on my computer. The card didn't work on his, so he was making sure before sending it back. However, it's always nice if one uninstalls software when one wishes to cease using it instead of deleting it (he's always had problems with that). Now I have to deal with a "windows cannot find something or other" message every time I boot. At least it doesn't affect anything else.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
    Bump!

    Hey, someone add this to the FAQ and/or make a news post to get there word out. This problem has been around for 2 years now and was only fixed recently.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: 4044'31.03"N 11151'16.60"W
    Alright, I got Windows back.
    Everything's fine..... or is it?

    Now Windows won't detect any coms ports, which means I can't use any USB , LPT:, or RS232 ports.....damn. And MicroSoft's support search engine sure isn't helping me any.



    BTW, disabling W Fog and enabling Z Fog and Table Fog doesn't do anything on a Radeon 7200, at least not mine.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Toronto,Ontario,Canada
    Originally posted by ataricom
    BTW, disabling W Fog and enabling Z Fog and Table Fog doesn't do anything on a Radeon 7200, at least not mine.
    Make sure you have the latest Catalyst drivers.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: 4044'31.03"N 11151'16.60"W
    Aaah, now why didn't I think of that?

    EDIT:
    I can't seem to find the appropriate driver for Win98. I select Win98 as my OS, Radeon 7200 as my card, and it takes me to the incorrect page. The page has a link to the driver for WinME, not '98. Can anyone redirect me?
    Last edited by ataricom; 4th Dec 2002 at 23:57.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: You are Here
    Northon - your solution to the Radeon's fogging problem has now been added to the FAQ.

    Good work.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Tampa
    ok heres a question for all you ati8500 owners:
    how well does the ati card work in general? can you guys play any game and it look right? in the past i know ati has had compatibility problems

    now that i know the 8500 can play thief properly, it is added to my list of considerations for what card to get. They are like 65$ on pricewatch.com so i might get one.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Originally posted by ataricom
    Aaah, now why didn't I think of that?

    EDIT:
    I can't seem to find the appropriate driver for Win98. I select Win98 as my OS, Radeon 7200 as my card, and it takes me to the incorrect page. The page has a link to the driver for WinME, not '98. Can anyone redirect me?
    use the WinME drivers, they work just as fine on win98, ATI is not making drivers for windows98 anymore because microsoft stopped supporting the OS, so just use the ME drivers.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Originally posted by p7eter
    ok heres a question for all you ati8500 owners:
    how well does the ati card work in general? can you guys play any game and it look right? in the past i know ati has had compatibility problems
    I have had the card for about 6 months now, i haven't had a single problem with it. i have more than 40 games and they all work just fine, the card is running on a win98 system.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    Just thought I'd resurrect this old dinosaur of a thread...!!

    I tried the above steps, and they didn't work for me. BlackRuin was kind enough to share what he had found out in getting his Radeon card (8500?) working, and it worked perfectly for mine.

    I have an ATI RADEON 9700 Pro, installed under Win XP Home, and I had to do this:

    Download the Rage3d Tweaker mentioned above

    Installed it like it was mentioned above and at the R3d site

    Run the Tweaker to get to the Display Properties and enable ALL 3 FOG settings, then restart my computer

    Then, startup Dromed and load in a mission with fog in it (it won't work of course)

    Exit Dromed, go into the Tweaker utility and DISABLE W FOG (leave the other two enabled)

    Run Dromed and load in the mission with FOG, and it worked!!!

    Hope this helps someone else down the road.


  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Tampa
    the above steps USED to work, back when i had dirextx 8 and the catalyst 2.x drivers.

    but since i upgraded, the steps dont work anymore and i cant get fog. i have learned to live with it. i am not sure if its DX 9 or the new 3.0 catalyst that causes it. but u can try going back to a 2.x cat and see if it works

    i will try hit dietys way next

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