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Thread: New: X-Ghost Official Rules

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002

    New: X-Ghost Official Rules

    Are you a good ghost on Thief 1/G/2? Do you follow all the rules? I've just started playing ghost and follow my own set of rules that I'd like to share with you all. They are based off of my own ideas as well as old rules from other ghosting titles. I've added quite a few changes... ones that portray more reality than just what the dark engine allows, also ones that don't overkill the idea of being an extremely talented thief. I think somethings need to be renewed and re-thought every so often so here is my updated list of rules that I follow. I've named this set of rules eXtreme Ghost or X-Ghost for short. If you like.. try them yourself and see how you do. I like a little challenge, and this challenges me the most and is most detailed and complete compared to any other ghost rules I've seen! They are also appropriate for Original Missions and Fan Missions.

    Reason for Rule Update:

    There are several different types of rules out there, some silly and unrealistic, others overkill and not fun to use. While others have a majority of great ideas. So I decided to combine the most realistic rules, as well as add a few of my own that I thought of.

    X-Ghost Official Rules

    1. Sudden Death - First put the following lines at the bottom of your user.cfg file:

    - FailOnSee
    - FailOnKO
    - FailOnKill

    This will cause the mission to fail as soon as you are spotted by humanoid, robot, or watcher. Also if you kill or knock anyone out.

    2. Difficulty - All missions played on Expert; Always.

    3. Objectives - All objectives, optional or mandatory, are to be completed. Objectives take priority over the Rules. If a game Objective calls for you to do something that goes against the rules, the Objectives have priority as long as you can do it without alerting anyone and in keeping good with the other rules that follow. Situations such as these must be reported in the mission write-up.

    4. Property - No property damage of any kind, including: cutting banners, burning or destroying items, and braking glass.

    5. Cheating - No cheating of any kind including walkthroughs, trainers, and cash_bonus codes.

    6. Mission Saving - Finish mission within 6 hours (daylight). No saving or pausing during a mission, ever! Between missions you can rest and save progress. Garrett didn't steal everything in one night. Unlike CushyTrumpet Mode would have you believe, he rested in between jobs... sometimes for days. But don't start a mission unless you have time to finish it.

    7. Mission Failure - If you fail a mission, You can never play Thief again since you are dead. Uninstall Thief and throw the CD-Rom in the garbage. Heh. Just kidding. This is a tricky rule to cover. There is no point in starting the game over from the very beginning if you already completed the levels up till this one. So re-stealing an item you already stole proves pointless. My advice, Don't Fail. But if you must.. just restart the current mission you are on. We will assume that you were ressurected by the Keepers. Remember, it is still a game, but post that in your results.

    8. Weapons - No killing, blackjacking, or knockouts of any kind to any Humanoids or Robots. No exploding devices such as mines, fire arrows, powder kegs, or sunburst devices should ever be used unless objectives call for it. Sword, Blackjack, Broadhead & Noisemaker arrows are of no use to you in this mode and should never be purchased. Rope & Vine Arrows may be used but must always be retrieved. Rope & vine arrows also may never be used in the path of a patrolling AI. Moss Arrows may only be used outside and only near tiled cement areas, grassy areas, and ponds where it is possible to grow naturally. No moss on gravel or roof tops. Moss arrows may never, ever be used in doors.

    9. Robots - No shutting down of self-running robots by any means. This include Combat bots, spider bots, and small bots.

    10. Alerts - IMPORTANT! Judging by how quick the humanoids assume that all small noises are just rats, it is safe to assume that there is a huge rat problem in this game. Therefore all first alerts that are relieved with a shrug off comment such as "Must've Been Rats..." & "Thought I heard something..." are perfectly fine. This includes all humanoids and robots that hears something and talks about hearing something, but did not think the noise was loud enough to go into search mode. Some ghost modes frown on this as a bad thing. But if there is a guard standing in front of a door that you must pick, he is going to hear the first pick and say something about a noise so it makes their rules less feasible and less credible. However, if any AI goes into Search mode, the mission shall be Failed. Watcher bots may chirp as they do if you are in a slight dim light (after all you could be a rat). But they may not go yellow, and certainly not Red. If an alarm of any type is sounded, the mission is failed. Zombies, Haunts, Apparitions, and all other undead are considered Humanoid AI and must not be harmed nor be aware of your presence. Which includes never going into search mode.

    11. Torches & Lamps - No flame may be doused in a room with a Humanoid. Robots are ok. Torches may only be doused with Gas Arrows, leaving no sign of wetness anywhere. This is acceptable since torch fire can go out by itself if it runs out of fuel or there is a breeze. But remember that you only have maybe 1 or 2 gas arrows at a time, so use them wisely where it really counts. Gas Lamps are made of glass and wont absorb water like wood will. They can be extinguished with water or gas arrows, however, you must relight the lamp before you leave that room; and if applicable, before a humanoid returns to that room.

    12. Animals & Bugs - Spiders, rats & flys, may see you and may be killed, judging by the size of the spiders in this game, i don't think anyone will miss them, and with all the talk of rat problems, you will be doing them a favor. Even if there is an arrow sticking out of a spider... this is medieval times, everyone and their brother has a bow and arrow, anyone could have killed that spider with an arrow. Ape Men, Cray beasts, Burricks, Tree beasts and Bug Beasts, are to be considered to be humanoids and your presence shall not be known to them, nor will you harm them.

    13. Return to Normal - Doors and windows are to be closed and relocked if they are relockable as soon as you walk through them; secret panels, secret doors, safes, chests and gates must also be closed and locked if possible; all keys returned, books/scrolls/letters returned to their original place. If items are picked off a patrolling AI, drop them back on the original patrol route or at their feet if they are a stationary AI. If the item was acquired from a niche or other similar place you can?t get it back into, drop the item on the floor below it or the nearest logical place. You cannot stack boxes to gain access to an area when your stack is on the patrol path of an AI. If it can be done in a shadowed area off a patrol path or even in direct light where no one is patrolling, that is fine. But all boxes used must be put back in their original location.

    14. Switches - Lights Switches may be turned off if there is no humanoid present in that room and there are doors that are shut allowing no one to see in that room. Lights must go back on before you leave the room and if applicable, before humanoid AI returns to the room. Robots are ok. Security Systems, Alarms, and cannon face robots switches may be turned off only if there are no AI with a path there. And must be turned on before completing the mission. Large Gate Switches may never be used. Small door switches are fine.

    15. Inventory - Potions are a valued resource that are to be used wisely. You are given potions and allowed to buy potions for a reason, so use them. But remember, you are usually given only 1 or 2 viles of a potion type at a time so use them very wisely as a master thief should. Keep a Clean Inventory: Don?t pick up what you don?t need and return what is not usable.

    16. Keys vs. Picks - Keys are always the alternative route to picking the lock first. This includes rooms with more than one door. Check all doors with the picks before attempting to retrieve a key. Once a key is taken and used, be sure to lock the door behind you and each time you leave or enter the room, place the key back where you found it, or place the key back in the path of the patrolling AI you picked it from at the point where the guard is currently standing to imply that you are putting it back on his belt. although the dark engine does not support it, you are trying to act as if you are putting it back on his belt and therefore must drop it in the path at the point where the guard is.

    17. Dark Engine - No Exploitation of the Dark Engine: No Nudging, Hooking of AI with boxes, Barrel Polka Dancing or anything that takes advantage of quirks in the Thief Dark Engine for gameplay advantage. However, Banner Transmigration is allowed and necessary to find secret areas, hidden loot, and reach Perfect X-Ghost status.

    18. Clues - Do not leave anything behind that you may have brought with you. This includes laying out mines, dropping items, leaving arrows stuck in the wall, etc. Do not leave any evidence that a thief may have been here.

    19. Framing: The Perfect Crime - When applicable, remove a single item from the Home Owner's room such as a book or scroll or key, and place it in the bed of a servant or guard. Thus framing someone else for the crimes you've just commited and leaving even less suspicion of you, the master thief being involved.

    Things that are allowed: Damage to yourself from falling or burning or running out of breath is fine, as long as you don't alert anyone while doing it. A single AI may be knockout with a gas arrow if and only if: He is drunk, it is extremely necessary, and no one else is around.

    Perfect X-Ghost: Follow all rules, Find all secrets, Find all loot, Pick all pockets.

    Remember. This is just my opinion of the best compilation of rules with the most benefit. Feel free to use what you like the most, and please feel free to offer feedback and add some rules of your own that may not have been mentioned.
    Last edited by kewlazme; 28th Dec 2002 at 18:34.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Looking for my pants
    Uh oh.


  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Texas
    Originally posted by Aedryn
    Uh oh.

    No Aedryn, this is a good post. Everything was said in a positive manner and came out very professionally. This is the kind of post that fits in the TTLG community!

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Looking for my pants
    The reason I said:
    Uh oh.
    is because someone might flame because of the last thread. However, you are correct, B745, that this post was written well and is the type of post that fits the community.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany

    Re: New Ghost Ideas and realism in the game

    Originally posted by kewlazme
    cutting banners
    I think I posted this mail yesterday and sure wrote it, but it appears as if it were lost (or stolen he, he) on the way to the server. Must be a thief in here.

    I always fail to see why cutting banners would be prohibited. by the ghosting rules. As I see it there are limitations to the game engine that were not considered by the developers, or might have been considered, but have been discarded because the game must be playable for the average player.

    One of this limitations is that you can't put a key back on the belt of a guard. The logical conclusion to this is to lay it back in the path of the guar you took it from. But to do it realistically it wouldn't be enought to put it back in the path of the guard as this should be considered by the guard as "Oh I lost my key here". Therefore the key that has to be put back on the belt must be dropped at the path when the guard is walking by.

    Another of these limitations is cutting banners. I guess that the developers never thought that there would be such hardcore gamers like here, so cutting a banner was enough for gameplay. On the other hand the real Garret would have to possibility to look behind the banners without cutting them, so cutting a banner in the game engine is Garrets way of looking behind the banners in the real world. No thief in his right mind would actually cut a banner while being on tour. This would be the biggest sign pointing at a thief in the house.

    Using a water arrow indoors sounds also suspicious to me. If a servant would take out a lamp or torch he has a device for doing so. Putting it out with water should be very suspicious to a patroling guard. Putting out a big number of lights will also be suspicious. Taking out one or two will not raise questions as this could happen. Taking out 20 torches might raise questions especially if afterwards it is detected that there are many stolen goods. It can be assumed that the servant and gaurds will talk to each other and this would rovide a clue as to an external thief. The thiefery itself could be attributed to internal people like servants, though I wouldn't believe this when so many goods are stolen. The amount of missing items already gives an indication that a thief has been here, but using water arrows would raise that suspicion much earlier as not all items will be noticed missing immediatly.

    Whats that "Banner Transmigration and Barrel Polka Dancing"?

    I think that keys should be the prefered way or can you lock a door with the lockpicks? If not then it would be suspicious because the doors would stay unlocked.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    You bring up a very valid point with the banner cutting. There should be a way to look behind it and in some cases a secret is found when cutting a banner. To reach Perfect X-Ghost status you must find all secrets so the two items contradict themselves not only on my list but on others as well. I guess banner cutting in search of a secret will have to be decided upon by the player. As long as you are not banner cutting to be a vandal.

    Banner Transmigration I think is the act of leaning through a banner. Which coincidentally may solve the first problem of cutting the banner, but it is also considered a no-no because it takes advantage of the dark engine limitations. Anyone else have input on this?

    I dont quite understand your key question as far as the path goes. Whether or not the guard walks by there at the exact time you put the key back or not he wouldn't necessarily know where or when he dropped his key exactly... All he would know is that it would have to be somewhere on his path. There is however a little engine glitch though. When you steal a guards key to open a locked door. That guard should no longer be able to open that door.. but he still can. He should lose his unlock abilities and begin searching for the key. But we do with what we can.

    As far as Indoor water arrows, thats carefully covered in the rules so that guards never see unlit lamps or torches except for the 1 or 2 torches you put out with a gas arrow. Gas Lamps are relightable by right-clicking on them so its ok to water them down momentarily as long as no AI is in the room and you relight them before you leave the room or before an AI walks back in the room. I doubt anyone will notice a small water spot on the wall or rug where they aren't walking. And when the gas lamp is re-lit.. it will dry the wet spots around it.

    Barrel polka I think is two things.. on some FMs you may notice that you can walk through a barrel. Rarely seen in OM's if ever. And you can push barrels around by running into them. Correct me if Im wrong on these two.

    As far as keys vs picks. Picks are the tool of the skilled thief which is why garrett uses them. It makes things slightly more difficult and tension building if garrett has to work at a lock to get in. When someone finally sees that the door is unlocked.. it will most likely be passed off as neglect and idiocy by some guard or servant and not looked into.
    Last edited by kewlazme; 10th Dec 2002 at 17:38.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2000
    Location: Anywhere but here
    As to the keys vs. picks thing, I would suggest the following order of preference for getting past a locked door:

    1: If possible, find an alternate route that avoids unlocking the door at all.

    2: If that is not an option, use a key found lying around the house - NOT on a guard's belt - and relock the door behind you immediately. Put the key back where you found it when you are done.

    3: Use lockpicks and relock the door with a key later. Replace the key where you found it.

    4: Use lockpicks and leave the door unlocked. This is fine, as people might just forget to lock a door. This is NOT allowed it the door is a very significant door (Such as Ramirez's basement door) or if it is hardly ever used, as it being unlocked would arouse suspicion.

    5: As a last resort, use a key from a guard's belt and put it back on their patrol route when you are done. They'll just assume it fell from their belt. Make sure you relock the door, though.

    Following an AI through a door is not allowed, nor is holding open a door that an AI tries to close. They would notice in real life.

    If a guard's patrol route takes him through a locked door, and he has a key on his belt to unlock this door, you must NOT steal the key from him as it would become immediately obvious that the key had been stolen.


    A few other points:

    Don't kill spiders or other animals. Finding a dead spider with a broadhead arrow sticking out of it will arouse suspicion

    Banner transmigration SHOULD be allowed, as it would be possible in real life - You could simply push the banner to one side and replace it when you're done. Frobbing objects behind banners is also allowed.

    If you die or are seen as a result of an engine glitch (For example, Sudden Heart Attack Syndrome or bouncing off a rope instead of catching it), feel free to reload a recent savegame rather than restarting the mission from scratch.

    Don't steal loot while an AI is looking at it!

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Texas
    Don't steal loot while an AI is looking at it!
    Guard: "Hey, where did that gold go?
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
    Must've been rats!"


  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Excellent elaboration on the keys cyber

    I too agree that banner transmigration should be allowed.. it is dark engines way of letting us look behind a banner. I know what you're saying about the spiders... but i feel Spiders with arrows sticking out of it isnt that big of a deal when you are in medieval times. you'll notice that everyone and their brother has a bow and arrow or crossbow. Another arrow guard could have killed the spider.


    Originally posted by B745
    Guard: "Hey, where did that gold go?
    Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
    Must've been rats!"

    If they have rats the size of the rats in new york, it Sounds very possible to me!
    Last edited by kewlazme; 10th Dec 2002 at 21:15.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Finland
    Lockpicking scratches the lock and leaves marks. Is this considered property vandalism?

    Well, I don't think it changes the opening method priority, tho.
    ------

    On another note:
    Is it allowed to break the rules if you give the AI a plausible explanation.

    For example, in the first T2 mission, there's the food elevator. I suppose you could... if timed right...

    1. Ride up the elevator with a heavily packed food tray...
    2. Throw the tray to the table and cause wreckage.
    3. Snatch the loot.
    4. Ride down when the guard comes to investigate.
    5. Shout in a mumbling voice: "Oops! My bad!"

    ... and the guard might assume that the elevator was just packed too full and the stuff fell out of it. Bloody kitchen helpers they got these days... *grumble*


  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    heh.. I have my own lock pick set that I saw on TV that i bought for fun. I pick my door locks all the time without scratching them up. All the scraping and friction is done inside the lock so the only problem is when you pick a lock way too often. MY locks are getting bad cuz i do it too much. Since you shouldn't have to pick a lock more than once or twice per level (Casing the Joint & Precursor Masks) this shouldn't be a problem.

    As far as the pretending to be a servant. I too thought about stuff like that. but then we could just run around in their clothes the whole game and steal stuff right in the open.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany
    Originally posted by kewlazme
    You bring up a very valid point with the banner cutting. There should be a way to look behind it and in some cases a secret is found when cutting a banner. To reach Perfect X-Ghost status you must find all secrets so the two items contradict themselves not only on my list but on others as well. I guess banner cutting in search of a secret will have to be decided upon by the player. As long as you are not banner cutting to be a vandal.
    I don't think that you can be a vandal if you think to play the game as a simulation of the real world. As long as you try to be a sneak thief, banner cutting would be the last thing a sensible thief would do, but that distiniction is, of course, only in your head. So if you run around cutting banners for fun it would count as vandalism, though the effect would be the same on the screen.

    Banner Transmigration I think is the act of leaning through a banner. Which coincidentally may solve the first problem of cutting the banner, but it is also considered a no-no because it takes advantage of the dark engine limitations. Anyone else have input on this?
    Does this work like key-holing? I just read about that. I also noticed some quirks when leaning around a corner, so this might work with banners as well. Specifically I noticed that you could sometimes lean right around a door, with full view of the floor behind it, when you leaned forward/left/right and moved around a bit. The effect is much farther then normal leaning would allow, so I guess you refer to somehting like that.

    I dont quite understand your key question as far as the path goes. Whether or not the guard walks by there at the exact time you put the key back or not he wouldn't necessarily know where or when he dropped his key exactly... All he would know is that it would have to be somewhere on his path. There is however a little engine glitch though. When you steal a guards key to open a locked door. That guard should no longer be able to open that door.. but he still can. He should lose his unlock abilities and begin searching for the key. But we do with what we can.
    All these rules are of course just in your head, as there are no coded rules that would be enforced by the engine. So regarding the path of an AI and where to put the key I see it like this (assuming you think as a guard would in the real world):
    When I put the key anywhere in the path of a guard (I don't like the Term AI because it is so unpersonal ) and it sees the key it would, naturally check for its own key, missing that it would think something like "Oh! I must have lost my key, glad that nobody noticed it." and picks it up. If this is only happening once it doesn't matter because this could happen. The rule in ghosting to put the key in the path is (presumably) to put the key back on the belt. Since this can't be done because of the engine limitiation, the nearest thing would be to put the key on the path, BUT putting it on the path is only the simulation of putting it on the belt when you do this when the gurad is in a postion where you COULD reach it's belt. You can't steal the key from the belt when the guard is somehwere else or out of reach, so logically you can't put it back on for the same reason.
    Putting it somewhere along the path also has another problem. Just putting it anywhere would make it possible for another guard to notice it. As this can happen this, in itself, wouldn't be a problem. If a gurad loses a key and finds it it wouldn't talk about it (presumably). If another guard would find the key chances are that he would talk to his friends after work and if this happens on other guards as well, they would immediatley notice that this can't be coincidence. As the rules are to provide for a thief who doesn't leave any traces this would be quite obviously a big hint for the guards that something is amiss.
    Personally I think that, because of the amount of items being stolen, it would be assumed anyway that a thief has visited. But that also would depend on how the different items would be missed. If many of them are missed in the morning it is quite obvious. If one item is missing the next day and another one discovered on another day it could be atributed to a servant as well.

    I doubt anyone will notice a small water spot on the wall or rug where they aren't walking. And when the gas lamp is re-lit.. it will dry the wet spots around it.
    I think because of the nature of the light source a small spot would be easily missed, considering the flickering.

    Barrel polka I think is two things.. on some FMs you may notice that you can walk through a barrel. Rarely seen in OM's if ever. And you can push barrels around by running into them. Correct me if Im wrong on these two.
    I haven't played a FM yet. I just started to replay the Thief series in the original version and afterwards I wanted to start with FMs. I hope they keep the atmosphere of the original levels. I would also appreciate pointers where I can find many FMs for downloading, a collection on DVD would be even better (assuming there are enough to bust the 600MB of a CD.

    As far as keys vs picks. Picks are the tool of the skilled thief which is why garrett uses them. It makes things slightly more difficult and tension building if garrett has to work at a lock to get in. When someone finally sees that the door is unlocked.. it will most likely be passed off as neglect and idiocy by some guard or servant and not looked into.
    I think that picks are much more preferably as long as you relock the door again. Wether it is considered neglect or burglar depends on the door. I doubt that anybody would consider it neglection when the door is unlocked to the most important secret of the mansion. On the other hand if it is a door that simply leads to a cellar that might be discarded as stupidty.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    I changed the rules to allow banner transmigration so you shouldn't have to cut down banners. you can just lean through them and grab stuff. However, On some banners in FMs, the act of cutting the banner actually pops up the "Found Secret" flag... so use your own discretion.


    Does this work like key-holing?
    Its basically standing next to the door or banner and using the lean forward button and putting your head through the banner.

    he simulation of putting it on the belt when you do this when the gurad is in a postion where you COULD reach it's belt.
    I understand what you are saying now. Make it more real by simulation putting it back on the guard's belt, even if it only drops to the floor you acted like you put it on his belt. And you are correct.. if another guard on that path sees that key and then goes somewhere else and sees another key from another guard.. he is gonna be like "what the hell is with these retards"

    Good Points!

    I hope they keep the atmosphere of the original levels. I would also appreciate pointers where I can find many FMs for downloading, a collection on DVD would be even better (assuming there are enough to bust the 600MB of a CD.
    Some FMs are silly and simple, some are tedious and well thought out and go above and beyond the original objects of dromed, some are just stupid, and some are so Close to real levels of Thief its scary ("Art of Thievery" is the closest to the real game that I've played)

    Two main places to get these missions:

    http://lserv00.math.uh.edu/thief/missions/ - is updated daily and #1 spot for missions.
    http://www.keepofmetalandgold.com/ - seems to be updated every 2 weeks, but has CD-Rs for sale with most of the missions on a disc. There are hundreds of FMs out there so you got your work cut out for you.

    you will definitely enjoy most of them.

  14. #14
    In "shipping... and recieving" you need to cut down 3 banners to get all secrets and loot

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    There ya go... another instance of Banner cutting that causes a problem. I guess in the instance of dark engine's limitations... you have no choice to but to cut a few banners.

    How come I never saw this issue come up in any of the other ghost rules? That rule is in everyone elses ghost rules as well.

    Can you lean through a banner and see if it is necessary to cut down before cutting down?

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2001

    Interesting ruleset, but I have a few things to say

    Originally posted by kewlazme
    - FailOnSee
    - FailOnKO
    - FailOnKill
    This works only in Thief 2, right?

    11. Torches & Lamps - No flame may be doused in a room with a Humanoid.
    This means that many missions, e.g. Bafford's, become unghostable.

    Perfect X-Ghost: Follow all rules, Find all secrets, Find all loot, Pick all pockets.
    Why picking all pockets? That would mean one had to take all keys from the guards. Or did you only mean the valuables?

  17. #17
    BANNED
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Laurelindórenan
    Originally posted by Bone Collector
    This means that many missions, e.g. Bafford's, become unghostable.
    Not true.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    you are correct Sailor Eagle...

    This means that many missions, e.g. Bafford's, become unghostable.
    thats very untrue. You just have to be very careful.

    FailOnSee.. etc are only available in T2. I just found that out myself. Still applies.. but just to T2... T1 you work on the honor system.

    You bring up an interesting point with Picking pockets.. I am not sure if the game counts keys or just loot bags and items. I supposed the game would also count the keys and that would contradict a little. Perhaps SE knows for sure.

  19. #19
    BANNED
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Laurelindórenan
    Keys count as pickpockets, as do arrows, as far as I remember.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Well in that case.. Pickpocket rule still stands based on
    the bolded section of Rule 16: "Drop Key in Path where guard currently stands/walks".

    If key is unnecessary, then picking it and putting it right back down behind the guard suffices. In the case of arrows, taking one arrow (frobbable) out of his whole back sack does not alert suspicion, especially since no one should see you and wouldn't need to use any arrows.

    Object is to suffice all goals at the end of the level, # out of # should match for each section.
    Last edited by kewlazme; 28th Dec 2002 at 18:41.

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