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Thread: Opinions on Characters?

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Crystal House
    Err, sorry. I just can't stop now. I know some of my last thing was classified as 'bloody obvious'. But playing it again:

    Is/Was Emily a pacifist? She managed to sneek into Area-51 with "just a Sig and it's ammo in her sidebelt" (as Anna testified). Her links with Frankenstien are frightening, especially the quote you chose, given what she and Nicholas both are (super-organised), and what she was (the photo again). It's strange, but in all those details in Nicholas's office, we never see or hear one mention of a wife, which you would probably expect from someone who adopted someone such as Emily...

    Will we ever learn about the second agent - "That bearded bastard?" (Thank you so much, Gary). "We went our seperate ways" from Spake sounds disturbing, especially if he was fitted with the insta-killswitch (MJ-12 would love that technology: "I came to watch you die... oh, you've already gibbed"). He sounds totally Hermannesque ("He dragged along a rotary grenade launcher to what should have been a simple [...] mission and ended up having to use it to take out squads" - God Bless you Anna, you leak so much infomation you make Miss Myers look positively inexperienced). Maybe that's why he wandered off...

    In fact, Anna's character is guiding you towards pacifism in a totally different way than Paul Denton and Anna Navarre did ("I'm more than just a killer.") Which ties in to (my, at least) subconcious urge to prove myself to the most professional (*sic*) member of the team bar Nicholas. Nicholas also swings this way ("Contrary to what many members of the Project might think, we're more researchers than activists"), alongside much of the new equipment. I suppose all games reflect the biases of the people who made them, even Cassandra.

    And, to be honest, Jo is one of the few characters I have ever gone Totally Postal on (Bob Page and Half-Life scientists being two others), but only since there is no "Shut up you... you Fashion Advisor! *bitch-slap*" Dialogue tree.
    Last edited by O'Shuva; 2nd Feb 2004 at 16:22.

  2. #52
    I think an interesting thing on all of the characters is that they see no problem working in a place with a killbutton. As simple as saying, "Boom, you're dead," and ... boom, you're dead.

    There doesn't seem to be any safety features, if James mixed his drugs badly and went on a shooting spree our PC couldn’t defend herself.


    Of Nicholas, if he believes that it really is even than he’s missing part of his brain, I bet Emily could figure it out. If Charlotte can kill nick at any time, and depending on her life might very well do so, but if she does she dies. Nick can kill her just as easily, and thus counts all things even, yet he doesn’t have any problems. That means that where Charlotte has serious reason not to kill nick, nick has no reasons not to kill her.

    The obvious way to make this fair would be for every project member to have a “boom you’re dead” thing, or have everyone who works with Charlotte’s, “boom you’re dead,” to have their own that will kill them if they do anything to threaten Charlotte.


    Bobby Chaos slightly more than pi believes that Charlotte knew of this before she took the job, and didn’t think it phased her. He felt bad, though not overly much, when he found it had been done without her knowledge. This is an interesting view on human nature, and an odd hope (as in odd belief that there is hope for what he asks) when we see him ask for forgiveness.


    Anna, dark and disturbing probably has no problem with the idea of a self-destruct switch for the agent, on the other hand she might. If she had been given one than she wouldn’t be able to shoot the people she’s going to if Cassandy goes bust. Also she seems to support the pacifistic views Charlotte can have, this is a stark contrast to what little else we know of her, it makes her about as interesting as Emily. It also makes it hard to judge her stance on the “boom you’re dead” function.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Just as a random character point, it should be noted that there's enough evidence to suggest that while Anna appears to be impressed by pacificism, she doesn't seem to actually practice it herself.

    KG

  4. #54
    Originally posted by Brem_X_Jones
    Just as a random character point, it should be noted that there's enough evidence to suggest that while Anna appears to be impressed by pacificism, she doesn't seem to actually practice it herself.

    KG
    That’s a big part of what makes her fascinating. Here she is, no illusion of practicing pacifism, or even considering it, yet she respects it and is impressed by it. She is a cold-blooded killer, yet seems to approve of you being non-lethal over being like her.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    That’s a big part of what makes her fascinating. Here she is, no illusion of practicing pacifism, or even considering it, yet she respects it and is impressed by it. She is a cold-blooded killer, yet seems to approve of you being non-lethal over being like her.
    This makes sesne if you consider her background.

    Contray to the rather (read: very) simplistic discussion on pacifism in Deus Ex being a killer doesn't make one a psychopath. Taking a pragmatic view, i.e. killing someone when necessary but not killing unecessarily, would, again, but right in character.

  6. #56
    "creating a world where monsters like her can't exist"
    but not just the seeming (it does make perfect sense, hence "seeming") contradiction there, but also that she doesn't seem to have any problem working with Charlotte if she is a monster like that.

    Very believable, also complex and far from cliché, an all around well done character.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    I shall await with interest her reaction to my slaughting my way through the first mission, and my sneaking my way through it.

    If there is one.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: The North, UK
    Are you Tim Ward? I've lost track. If so, where have you been? State has been suffering from a lack of italics.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    Yeah, I am. I stopped posting on state.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Originally posted by Tim Was Already Taken
    I shall await with interest her reaction to my slaughting my way through the first mission, and my sneaking my way through it.

    If there is one.
    If there isn't one, our scripting will have gone completely awry.

    One random thing: There is a "Charlotte is a Psychopath" flag which can be set off*, which - once the news gets around - changes the players interactions with the cast completely. Mainly by virtually removing it.

    Of course, killing every soldier you meet isn't a psychopathic action - but should alter different character's respect and action to you.

    Not that it'll always be obvious.

    KG

    *In fact there's one way of setting it off in the demo level.

  11. #61
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    All the characters are well done.

    Johny Casino is somewhat disapointing. What everybody else said made him sound like crazy and fun, but he somehow failed to live up to his reputation.

    At first I also disliked Charlotte's voice quite a lot. I expected her to sound quite diferent than that. I'm not sure if that's the proper english expression but I expected her voice to be "higher". Sort of like Anna's or Jo's. Now I got used to it it's okay, but I don't think I'll ever be able to completly identify myself with her (though to be honest that might also have something to do with the fact that she's female and I'm not).

    Nicholas looked a bit ... funny. He turned out to be broader than I expected and he didn't have a beard. He still made a good impresssion at first, but when I found out about the failsafe I changed my mind. I understand why the failsafe is an integral part of the Apollo modifications and I agree with him on that, but the bastard should have informed Charlotte about the failsafe before they installed the modifications.

    I have nothing special to say about Emily, Jo or Stuart (though they're all well made).

    I liked James quite a lot. He was fun to talk to. I also tried guessing his password, but Hephaistos wasn't it. Better luck next time.

    I love Anna. Good looking, gentle on the outside (very nice voice), hard like steel on the inside. Did her red outfit make anyone else think of TX from Terminator 3?

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    There's a lawsuit in the offing against Terminator 3. We'll keep you informed.

    KG

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Dublin
    Originally posted by Brem_X_Jones
    *In fact there's one way of setting it off in the demo level.
    By killing everyone in the pub? I never checked beyond "I wonder what happens if I shoot that angry guy"
    *thinking*
    I wonder if it might take the nerve gas...

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    I'd be careful with Nerve gas in the pub. If it hits any Cassandra Project members or affiliates, your killswitch will go off.

    KG

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Dublin
    I went and tried it, just to see what would happen (I had never used it before) I think i was spectacularily lucky, Casino walked out just before I threw it, and the Barman ran in the opposite direction when he saw me throw it.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Sounds like you were. Barman's AI is more than a little bit twitchy.

    I love the triggers in that particular bit, assuming they fired off.

    KG

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Crystal House
    Is it just me? I remember executing Ryan and no one batted and eyelid and I didn't explode.

    I don't know, but maybe making Casino invincible (set TCPcore.TCPmemberCasino binvincible true) might stop him from taking damage, hence triggering the killswitch. I'll try it myself.

  18. #68
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    I think the whole point of the failsafe is (or at least was in the beginning) that it makes more sense than making people invincible.

    Btw, I tried killing the people in the bar and got the message from Nicholas. But that belongs more in the spoilers thread.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    It does, doesn't it.

    It's different if you KO them, btw.

    KG

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Originally posted by Dragatus
    I think the whole point of the failsafe is (or at least was in the beginning) that it makes more sense than making people invincible.
    Yes. We didn't want there to be anything as artificial as an "Invulnerable" tag in the game, basically. If you couldn't kill someone, it would be a purely In-game restriction. Of course, our solutions quickly turned into important plot points of worth of themselves.

    There was similar motivation in Invisible War's weapon-free bars and whatever, I'd guess.

    KG

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Oxford, England
    And keeping major characterts away from the player and communicating by voice comms. All rather artificial too, but it it is better than that ridiculous invincibility. Cassandra's system is the best but only because it has been particularly well explained and grounded in context.

  22. #72
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Brimingham, England
    All the characters are well fleshed out and its great having a background story to each and being able to get to know them before the missions. The comedy is great, but it would be even funnier if Nicholas was voiced by someone who sounds like barry out of Auf Wiedersein pet

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    The Cassandra Project members are not gods, and they will flicker and fade in time.

    Wittgenstein, Tractatus Logico Philosophicus, 6.4311:

    "If by eternity is understood not endless temporal duration but timelessness, then he lives eternally who lives in the present."

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Crystal House
    Uh, well, oh, err:
    Amend to the following:
    "The Cassandra Project members are not gods, and they will flicker and fade in time if eternity is taken as endless temporal duration."
    And there was me thinking of doing a philosophy degree. Looks as if I'm going to have to keep my Enochian tendencies bottled up until they explode.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Ah but with this amend I would argue that this form of god hood and fading you are talking about is not at odds with the kind of godhood that the good Dr is all about, but merely a truism, spiced up by being clad in naive intuitive pseudo empirical concepts.

    In other words, all Gods that count will flicker and fade. Those that are eternal are irrelevant and can be factored out.

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