Hopefully EIDOS realizes a similar ratio probably applies for SDK petition signing.Originally posted by ekeko
There were 1,115 downloads with less than 35 postings in this thread!
Ratio: 1 poster - 30 downloaders - X lurkers
but I'm sure there are almost pitch black rooms when all the lights have been put out. Dark enough that unless you went right up close you'd never know there was loot there (think of all the coins in Casing the Joint).
I think there's a bit when Garrett puts out the chandelier lights where it's really really dark (or at least it looked dark on my small screen)
With loot glint however apparently the loot is much easier to pick out as it glows in-your-face!
Hopefully EIDOS realizes a similar ratio probably applies for SDK petition signing.Originally posted by ekeko
There were 1,115 downloads with less than 35 postings in this thread!
Ratio: 1 poster - 30 downloaders - X lurkers
<RANT> ***ignore unless you want to read an obsessed freaks ramblings - you have been warned****
OMG they have totally messed with thief - Dan, convincing words but that gameplay footage was truly terrible to watch.
The issues of “difficulty” has already been addressed and all I can say is that "Expert" has a lot to live up to if that was suppose to be "normal" cause it seemed far easier than thief 1 and 2 “normal”
It is very obvious that 1st person is definitely playing second fiddle, the levels are designed around a third person perspective and I don't need a book on how to make computer games to notice that - big chunky and robust, kinda like the xbox, and toys for toddlers.
I was recently trying to play Dues Ex 2 again, go on try it again, and remember how awful and pointless the loading zones are because folk - they live on in thief 3! There is no way that is not going to break the atmosphere of the game. It is quite ironic that the attitude that goes into designing generic console games (and popular TV) is that peoples attention spans are so short, yet I know that the process of loading (more specifically clicking yes) is going to distract from any beauty exhibited by the game – if you don’t think this is a phiss poor console left over remember that the “yes” button will only be a thumb press on the xbox controller pad, yet for PC users we will have to move the mouse to confirm that we didn’t stroll into a big swirly fog cloud by mistake.
The best we can do here is play damage limitation – yet what-else do they do; throw up a loading screen with useless “tips” that are going to get pretty tiring very soon. There are only so many ways that you can say – “press A to activate object B”, we are not playing Baldur’s Gate here. I would also be pretty pissed off if plot information is conferred to the player this way - “The Hammers are a fanatical religious order, they went through a rough patch but are now entering steadier times” WTF, Why are you telling me on a LOADING SCREEN! I want to play the game and find out for myself! This approach to the installation of thief 2 was exhilarating – during the game it is just insulting.
So not only are the levels designed around 3rd perspective meaning BIG, OBVIOUS and lacking any subtly (hence your loot glint, or no flash blinding) but they have to be designed around loading zones. Digi nicely states that this might not be so bad in that it splits missions up into two, but the problem I have with this is the designers will have had to fit the levels around the loads. Remember the effect on T:MA’s plot where they fitted the plot around the levels, you are going to have similar (yet, of course, vastly different) design constraints; this time permeating every level!
Dan, where did you start that level from? Was it the same loading point that you travelled back through... or was that really the entire “zone”? Please say that there was a hell of a lot more to the level before the video cuts into you and samm “finding a way in through the window”?
I honestly thought that when the third person left the room the real commentary from you guys would start – beginning with the water explosions. I meaning what is this; aim the water arrow at the same wall as a candle and it will go out? The reason I am being this annal over the water arrows is the frustration of seeing the chandelier being dimmed with just one arrow – the thing was massive yet all those flames must have been modelled with just one light source, okay so I am being retentive – but then that is why I love thief one a two.
This is perhaps my prevailing compliant about what I have read and seen so far (and played wrt Dues Ex 2), the game just doesn’t seem to have had enough attention paid to detail, certainly not to the extent of original thief or dues ex. I feel the chances of getting a level like “rooftops” or “angle watch” are more than scares. Randomly click through your downloaded game-play footage files and what do you find, large open corridors devoid of personality, (note: I am talking about gameplay personality – such as the arcadey horror of Max Payne 1/2). Perhaps this is because it can not be conveyed through still images, but the video footage I have seen still leave the game wanting… the real proof will be in the playing, and so again I am only left with digis word (which I will trust head and tail over any other “previews”) and my own “bad feelings about this”
You may see a blocked review a few posts down from this one from someone the masses have decried as a fraud - but from the gameplay footage we have seen so far (despite subjective reviews) I would not be so hasty to burn this guy at the stake - don't throw the "guards can't climb ladders" at me cause we really still know next to nothing about the game and the amount of misinformation (including from "reliable" sources such as null) we have received over this game is scandalous, I am willing to believe that guards can in fact "rarely" climb ladders only because this guys review confirmed my worst fears about the game, too close to home.
I hope we see a demo but this game smells like Dues Ex 2 - and that really was a god damn awful game.
************************</RANT>
<SUMMARY> In conclusion - Thief: Lite </SUMMARY>
************************
Ahem, end of rant - if (when) I fall in love of this game I promise to go through my old naysayer posts and rip to shreds the phiss I have been saying. Don’t mistake me as someone not wanting to like this game (I don’t think there is really anyone who would bother being on a fan forum and yet hold that view) it is just that I know what I like and this game – Thief 3, the final part in a epic, revolutionary and yet to be bested gameplay experience, lasting a good 5 years - seems to be walking a VERY fine line. Yes, I would have been happy with just “thief 3 – thief 2, slightly better graphics, havok physics, tweaked sound prorogation and fantastic story”, in fact, I can’t see anything wrong with that. (oh, I forgot dynamic shadows)
No offence digi but if you knew that this was going to be a video to be shown to rabid hoards at ttlg (great web pages – best on the web btw cheers guys) you should have perhaps tested the engine to the extreme – jumping, aiming, firing arrows at wood, throwing bodies, even perhaps looking down to see garrets feet?!?
(yeah broke 1000 words - thanks for showing the loading zones and taking the video in the fist place - I don't want to sound like to much of an ungratefull prat, despite my nature)
If you first look at that scene earlier before Dan runs across the room... there is a gaurd in that little cove area. And Dan throws a couple water arrors past him with no success. Then Dan takes a bee-line to the other end of the room. Knowing full well that he will cause a little ruckus on the way. sure as we know... the gaurd in the cove starts looking around... and the servant from down the hall also runs into the room and they both start looking for Dan. This is where you see the 2 AI bumping heads.Originally posted by aerelorn
What the hell is going on from 2:35 to 2:48 in the clip? It looks like there's a guard trying to walk through a door, but he gets stuck so he walks away for a second, then comes back and gets stuck again.
Really, that servant should have just stayed where he was... but there yah go. That should put your curiousity to rest. Yo!
This Union by Love destroys the pain.
This Union by Love changes everything.
This Life inside is Symbiotic; conceived in Fire!
This is SUCH a TRAVESTY! omg... you have to CLICK YES!!! THIEF 3 IS RUINED!
Well, it's not much comfort that he was getting stuck because the servant was in his way. It's better than getting stuck on an unobstructed door, but the fact is he was still getting stuck. Hopefully it won't happen often during actual play.Originally posted by Lazarus
If you first look at that scene earlier before Dan runs across the room... there is a gaurd in that little cove area. And Dan throws a couple water arrors past him with no success. Then Dan takes a bee-line to the other end of the room. Knowing full well that he will cause a little ruckus on the way. sure as we know... the gaurd in the cove starts looking around... and the servant from down the hall also runs into the room and they both start looking for Dan. This is where you see the 2 AI bumping heads.
Really, that servant should have just stayed where he was... but there yah go. That should put your curiousity to rest. Yo!
I don't see this myself. Thief 1 & 2 both had exagerated room sizes and doors etc. Additionally, Thief 2 (in particular) had vast empty spaces with zero game play value without being nice to look at (look at Building B in Shipping... and Receiving to see what I mean).Originally posted by Raven
It is very obvious that 1st person is definitely playing second fiddle, the levels are designed around a third person perspective and I don't need a book on how to make computer games to notice that - big chunky and robust, kinda like the xbox, and toys for toddlers.
I only found the loading zones annoying when I they were too close together-- e.g., when you had to pass through one to get to another.I was recently trying to play Dues Ex 2 again, go on try it again, and remember how awful and pointless the loading zones are
This is the only thing I agree with. Having to select a button to confirm is annoying. There are better ways of doing it.(more specifically clicking yes)
Lost me here. What has 3rd person got to do with loot glint and flash blinding. The former is because it's not Thief: Easter Egg Hunt, and the easier-to-use flash bombs are because they're an alternative to the immersion-killing quick-load key. For example. which is better 1) fumbling for a flash bomb, blinding yourself, getting disorientated and killed as you couldn't escape, then reloading; or 2) blinding your surprise attacker, making a quick getaway, finding a place to hide while things calm down and finally going back to your mission.So not only are the levels designed around 3rd perspective meaning BIG, OBVIOUS and lacking any subtly (hence your loot glint, or no flash blinding).
Thief 1 and 2 water arrows also had a wide area of effect. Try it and see.beginning with the water explosions. I meaning what is this; aim the water arrow at the same wall as a candle and it will go out?
Having to use many arrows for what is effectively a single light source would really suck. I'm surprised you can't see this for yourself.frustration of seeing the chandelier being dimmed with just one arrow –
I'm only aware of one mistake null has made (custom difficulty settings) and he apologized sincerely for that."reliable" sources such as null
Oh, you forgot the auto-blackjack-raise in your rant. Surely that's the fault of the X-Box/3rd-person/Evil publisher? Rather than an attempt to provide an in-range cue as you have little/no depth perception on a 2D screen.
David
ps. It's Deus Ex.
[decides to comment] I think I'm going to be on the other end of the spectrum (as it appears most of the people in here are toward the "I hate it" side). Lol, no offense to anyone, but I think some of you need to chill out... It's a game...
What exactly is the big deal with the zone-change confirmation? It's just a button to click. If you want to talk about breaking immersion, what about the fact that reading any note or book calls up a new screen where everything pauses conveniently while you read at your leisure? As Dan mentioned in his review, the zone-change confirmation can be useful to see exactly what zone you're moving into. I really have no issue with it. And as Wynne said too, the blue fog doesn't look as bad as maybe most of us imagined it.
And other things like loot glint? That was not as bad as I imagined either. Watching the video, I never noticed the loot glint. Imagine when you're in the game. You're still likely to miss bits of loot if you're not paying attention. So loot isn't exactly a give-away, you still have to look for it.
What else... AI... Why is it so unrealistic that Garrett picks a lock near a guard? The guard is pretty much facing the opposite direction, and it's not like lockpicking makes a whole lot of noise. And the guard running around... how many times have we seen that in T1, T2? You'd think people would be used to it now. You can't expect a game to run perfectly. How come no one's complaining about the shoulder pads?
And just a couple last general points to make. The entire video was less than ten minutes. It's really hard to make judgments at this point. I'm still sticking to Dan's review more than to my thoughts watching the gameplay since Dan played many hours. When you buy a game, you don't play it for ten minutes and decide, "This game sucks."
One last thing about "realism." That's the thing that really gets to me. People always seem to want a game to be perfectly realistic. The problem is, often "realism" and "gameplay" clash. To make something more realistic often makes it less fun. (One example that jumps to my mind is SimCity 3000.) Overall, the goal of this entire project was to <i>make a game</i>. They're not trying to recreate the world. If they need to abandon realism for gameplay, I'm all for it.
surprisingly I don't really care about the auto blackjack thing - I was only ranting about things that worry me, and yes those (your views) are all reasonable positions to hold over the issues I raised... oh well time will tell and I hope that you are all correct.... I think it would be best if I just stop visiting here until I have completed game/demo. I am actually pleased at the over all optimistic attitude of the forum, it make my sound like a deluded naysayer, and as stated I hope that is case. My only real gripe with null is that his silences are sometimes more telling than than what he says, I don't hold it against the dude for talking about the custom difficulty - I am just thrilled that it is possible still in the game and could be perhaps haxored or patched to work in the future. Okay cheerio all – I am going to take some thief 3 time out…. Maybe I will spend it playing thief1 and 2 in anticipation… man, I have a problem
Guys, one thing bothers me. Leaning. I saw no leaning.
Now, or Digital doesn't lean very often (I do it every 5 secs myself), or leaning really sucks.
I'm going to watch it again. Maybe I missed it. God, please, I missed it.
IF YOU DO IT, DO IT WITH STYLE
Quit bitching about the AI on normal. It's the same awareness they had in Thief1/2 where you could pick a lock or douse a tourch right by an AI and he'd hardly notice. Realistic? No, but I think it worked fairly well on a difficulty standpoint.
Signed,
Richard M. Nixon.
Hrm, me personally i didnt find anything wrong with the first person movement, it looked alright in the video. And regarding the leaning, iirc in thief 1+2 the guards could spot you too if ya were leaning around a corner in full lightning. And imho being able to lean around happily everywhere without being prone to detection would be kinda dumb (after all were all master thieves, aint we? ^^ ). Loot glint is stupid, Blue loading fog is stupid, Loading confirmation and l33t info @ loading screen is stupid, auto-raising the bj is idiotic (borrowed from Manhunt? =p), blue frob highlight is weird, arrow trails are so-so (mebbe if they werent that neon-blue, but some translucent white....), nuff said. And that Ai getting stuck doesnt hurt, imho. Exploitable AI is fun
Oh boy, I am a master thief. Never been caught at leaning.
IF YOU DO IT, DO IT WITH STYLE
I am quite bothered by the loading zones. If there going to take that long then I really think that they should of just been a loading bar at the bottom right corner of the screen but that one I saw makes it seem like I'm entering a different mission and almost made me fall asleep. And I'm not sure which loading zone takes longer. The loading zones in Thief 3 or the one's in Gothic. I really wish that there was no loading zones because it destroyes the past thief gameplay and atmosphere for me that I really like but I see that they might of had to be implemented for this very high spec demanding game that is not even compatible for my computer for some reason. I was even thinking about getting a labtop just for this game untill I saw laptops not supported!! Well as I said before oh well becuse I don't really care that much to get Thief 3 anyways and now I do even less because of the load zones.
the best implementation of leaning in a game was in IGI2
you held the lean button down and moved your mouse to the direction you wanted to lean to and by how much
I really don't understand what the fuss is about graphical issues. I think part of the problem may lie in our expectations vs. the reality. A lot of the complaints I'm hearing could be applied to the first two installations of thief, looked at with an objective eye. From everything I've seen, the new graphics blow anything from T1 and 2 out of the water. I would suggest to everyone not to let your fears about this game become self-fulfilling prophecy.
Okay, to answer some of your questions (ok, just two of them):
-Holding a camera dead-steady with no arm or elbow support for 6 minutes+ is damned hard! I could've held it for several minutes longer but I didn't want to risk ruining my chance to play Thief: DS to the fullest extent.
-I don't think Dan demonstrated leaning in the video. Rest assured though that leaning is well implemented and will definitely be a cool feature, just like it was in the previous Thief games.
Glad you all liked the video. If I knew it made this great of an impression on the game, I would've taken more footage! Ah but we wanted to keep you all wanting to play the game more so we aimed at doing more of the 'teaser' thing.
Su-ure. Whatever you say.
Heya Saam!
I think we all think you two did a great job with the vid and all and it's great you guys got to go and check it out for us.
I think the game will be great, even with the little annoying things and I know that even with loading zones and super glow I'll still enjoy the game.
Last edited by jechma; 18th May 2004 at 12:02.
I have watched this video a few times now and I think it is a real kick. This is the game for real. Makes me wish Saam had had a tripod.
I think the game is going to be great as well.
Just Sneakin Through!
Was there any indication as to why the fog was there, fictionally? It seems really...contrived.
Am i wrong or there is a guard in the movie carring a lamp ? If guards can carry lamps then how is a thief going to be hable to hide himself ? I hope the game doesnt abuse of this thing. Check this situation: you are in a dark room and make a noise; the guards listen and each one picks up a lamp, you sneak into a coner and stay invisible; two guards enter the room and spread, their lamps illuminate the entire room; you are not invisible any more. Now imagine there are only two exits and from both of them you ear a guard running with a lamp in his hands, this is a no-win situation.
Thank you for that Video Digital and Saam.
Apart from loading screens with hints i like it very fine so far.
To give inofrmation on the factions of the game during loading zones seems fine with me.
I think we would like to see a little clip played in Expert mode please, even if that means you will ahve to hold the camera agian for a few saam
I would hold the camera, but hey i am on a different continent
Those were not hints, look closelyApart from loading screens with hints
That's true though i noticed one did say Garrett is a Tank!!! Kill. kill. kill. kill. kill.Originally posted by van HellSing
Those were not hints, look closely
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