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Thread: The Dark Mod

  1. #76
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    Body awareness is something we will be trying to incorporate, yes.

    EDIT: Wow 4 pages...we now have a crazy blog...set up by Phil.

    Expect much craziness. A proper website is coming soon.
    Last edited by Fingernail; 9th Sep 2004 at 12:22.

  2. #77
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by SneaksieDave
    Are you guys planning body awareness (if perhaps implemented a bit better)? Here's a vote FOR it.
    I think the problem with TDS's body awareness was that not only did you have a body that was graphically displayed, in some ways it had more control than you had, as Garrett would try to adjust his position. There were moments when that worked okay, and others where it simply took away control from the player. If this mod simply displays the player's body, there's no need to worry about the latter sort of body awareness, is there?

  3. #78
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    You could have body awareness and still keep the control. I think ISA set it up the way they did in Thief 3 simply for realism, but you could keep it in and still have the model move around as he would in Thief 1 and 2. It'd just look a little funky at times.

  4. #79
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    I read in an interview somewhere in which they said that implementing 3rd person made a lot of the body awareness problems much easier. This confirmed what I had suspected: that it was a bit of a hack job. All they did was graft the camera to Garrett's 3rd person head, thus the clunky movement. I'm no programmer, so I don't know what's possible or not, but for your Dark Mod I would try to build body awareness around first person, not the other way around.

  5. #80
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Not quite over the rainbow
    Quote Originally Posted by Domarius

    Remember the part on that page where it says "To fully enable EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD on Star Wars Jedi Knight: Jedi Academy, please download the latest patch from here."? That probably suggests that the game doesn't support it without the patch, and therefore, "the game needs to support EAX", not "EAX magically makes every game sound cool"

    And if you go to the main EAX 4.0 page
    It says down the bottom "EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD games are now available.", which probably means they weren't previously, and therefore you need a game that actually supports EAX 4.0

    And at the very bottom of that page, it says;
    "* The EAX 4.0 ADVANCED HD driver is currently available for the Sound Blaster Audigy (Windows 2000 and XP only), Audigy 2 and Audigy 2 ZS (Windows 98SE, Me, 2000 and XP). It is not available for the Audigy LS and the USB Sound Blaster Audigy 2 NX."
    So of course it didn't make a difference on your SBLive! card.
    Yeah, yeah, i have the patch and everything. At Quake's start-up it says "EAX 4.0 emulation support detected", so i assume by that, that everything was working as it was suppose to - and it's nothing like what Creative claims. Although, because the system my Audigy card is on uses Win98, i apparently won't be able to apply the Advanced HD patch, which you meantioned (and thanks for pointing out).. so maybe that's why (although i don't understand why i wouldn't have these drivers in the first place).

    I didn't expect it to work on my Live! card though, no.
    Just saying that it sounded no different with EAX 4.0 (using my Audigy) than it did with EAX 3.0 (using my Live! card)

    But, if the sound system really works and sounds as good as they make it out to be, i'd be one very happy kid, 'cause it sounds (o nos a pun) amazing.
    Last edited by Scarlett; 9th Sep 2004 at 22:37.

  6. #81
    Scarlett, yeah, I'd say Win98 is the problem, judging from the soundblaster page.

    Body Awareness
    I think the whole excessive headbobbing thing is STUPID. As ZylonBane pointed out once, when I move around, jump, run, whatever, my brain automatically causes my eyes and head to focus on where I'm headed, so it's naturally a smooth ride. Attaching a camera to the head joint of the model at a fixed angle and saying it's realistic is just bloody stupid.

    The camera shouldn't move at ALL in response to any of the animations. We have enough limitations (viewing through a screen, which is 2D, etc. etc.) without having more things get in the way.

  7. #82
    Registered: Jun 1999
    Location: Procrastination, Australia
    I suspect it's mostly a performance thing. On my machine Thief 3s headbob etc created an effect not inconsistent with the first two and certainly nothing unpleasant (except for running up stairs) and the first two have the best most involving player movement physics ever (TDS's default lean is shite of course).
    A mild head bob of some sort is far better than none.

    The turning thing probably wold have been better done in a manner similar to the Hitman games; if he turns his head a certain direction, after about a second he lines the rest of himself up automatically.
    I can see why they wouldn't want to do something like that; there's a much more complex animation system needed for starters, then it could happen at some inopportune moment and you fall off something (not that that consideration seems to have prevented them stuffing up the bow draw)
    I don't have a huge problem with the way it is, even though it's pretty odd to have to turn your heard to make sure the rest of you is pushed around the right way. After a while I got a kick out of walking sideways along precarious places while looking around at the same time.
    Last edited by Muzman; 10th Sep 2004 at 03:52.

  8. #83
    Maybe I was a bit harsh there.

    I forgot to mention that I haven't actually played T3 specifically, and I will have to wait till I play it to see how it feels particular to T3 (every game is different), but I have found it annoying in other games. Like in GhostRecon, where if you're laying down onthe ground, and "side step" you start moving in the opposite direction first, for about 1 second, and then you start to move the other way for as long as you hold the button. When you're in 3rd person, you can see the reason for this, cause the soldier re-adjusts his body a bit and then starts to move, but in first person, it's really annoying when you don't know what's going on.

  9. #84
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    For those who would like to follow our progress, we now have an official webpage up:

  10. #85
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Springheel
    For those who would like to follow our progress, we now have an official webpage up:
    That's an awful attempt at HTML right there.
    Last edited by Hemebond; 13th Sep 2004 at 00:31.

  11. #86
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: tampere,finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Hemebond
    That's an aweful attempt at HTML right there.
    That's an aweful attempt at spelling right there.

  12. #87
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: USA
    I've been drooling over the thought of someone using the Doom 3 engine for Thief mods. Excellent work so far!

  13. #88
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Los Angeles, CA
    I made this just now, not sure if you want to use it or whatever, up to you. I felt like drawing it, so i drew it.

    (mind you, our scanner sucks and photobucket has a 250k size limit, so it looks worse than it should.)

  14. #89
    Wow, this is some really impressive work... looks like I'll have to go out and buy Doom III.

    Its amazing what an SDK could have done for TDS... maybe more people would have bought it. Eidos missed the opportunity.

  15. #90
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I wouldn't write off the T3 SDK just yet, they might be finalizing it for public distribution as we speak.

    ...a really optimistic outlook, I know. But I think we might see one before it's all over with.

  16. #91
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Edmonton
    The letter campaign isn't over just yet. And it seems like a lot more have been sent this time.

  17. #92
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by S_Hole
    That's an aweful attempt at spelling right there.
    Woah. Thanks for the correction.

  18. #93
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: attic
    Very nice window

    May have to rethink a doom III purchase if this project is a success

  19. #94
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home

    Did someone say glass which diffuses & refracts?

    You have to see that ingame - just beautiful relflections, shininess, refraction and colour all in realtime. I love fragment shaders.

  20. #95
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: tampere,finland
    enable parallax mapping too
    it'd be nice

  21. #96
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    There are problems with parallax mapping, or at least with the mod that enabled it. Plus, it's not supported by all hardware.

    Then again, neither are fragment shaders....

    However, I will investigate parallax mapping...but it is a resource hog if used too much.

  22. #97

    What the...? Refraction/warping from bent glass? How the hell is that happening? That's in D3?

    *falls over*

  23. #98
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Same technique used for the ridiculous amounts of Wavy Heat Effect (tm) used in Doom3. Personally, I think glass is a much nicer use for it. It's subtler, but still applicable on old, crappy windows.

  24. #99
    Wow, really impressed with the current work you guys have done. The windows look great, particuarily the glass bending effect, all the textures are looking really good, I wish you all the best of luck with the rest of the project.

    I hope in the future I can lend a hand when I have my new computer built. I know for sure the programming elements and AI are going to be a lot less fun and frustrating to work on.

  25. #100
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic
    I wouldn't write off the T3 SDK just yet, they might be finalizing it for public distribution as we speak.
    Which brings to mind the question: If Eidos/Ion do in fact actually release an editor for T3, would the the Dark Mod project continue anyway? Would there be any point in doing so?
    Get all recent FMs at

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