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Thread: T2: High-Poly AI WIP

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY

    T2: High-Poly AI WIP

    I'm currently working on a project for Thief 2 that involves a setting unlike what you've seen from the Dark Engine in the past.

    You don't play a Thief, although you *can* steal things. You don't need a bow, although you *can* use one.

    That's all I'm willing to say about the setting at the moment, but here's a few screens I took about a month ago if you're interested.

    Now back to the topic, the AI in this project will be high-poly compared to the NPC's in Thief I & 2, although I really lack the skills to make them as good as Thief 3's AI. Here's a work-in-progress of a guard:



    And an in-game shot compared to a servant:


  2. #2
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Nice looking mesh! And I live in Lexington too, btw.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros
    Nice looking mesh! And I live in Lexington too, btw.
    No way! I had no idea there were other taffers around here! Actually, I haven't updated my profile in a while, I live in Nicholasville now, because I work here, but I'm in Lexington a lot.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Canada, Ontario, Toronto
    impressive...
    so do they high-poly AI naught lag?

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Looking good Phantom. I'd deffinately make the feet and hands bigger.

    So far I've gotten about 1800 polys to work fine in Dromed.
    (Skully mage and the Lizard man)

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Halden, Østfold, Norway
    I wouldn't go over 2000 if you are gonna have more than one in a scene.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY
    Hey guys! Sorry I haven't posted on this for a while, I've been without the internet.

    Anyway, here's a high-contrast, untextured shot in-game to show you some progress:


    It still needs some easy tweaking:
    - arms need to be bent at the elbow in anim8or so that they look right ingame
    - bottom half could be slightly bigger, more definition in the knees and butt
    - move the limit planes on the shoulders so that the armor there doesn't stretch so much

    I'll also make the hands bigger like Schwaa said.

    I actually thought he would top 2000 polys, because he was made of square polys. Exporting to .3ds converts square polys to triangle ones, multiplying polycount by 2, but I forgot that I made the head out of nothing but triangles, so 1000 polys in anim8or only became 1600. more to come...

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY
    And here's some pseudo-textured screens, only very basicly textured to show his overall 'look'.


  9. #9
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    That's looking great! Keep us updated.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Damn Dark Engine still has some life in her 'eh!

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX

    omg

    I wonderd about this possiblity. Man.. I am your humble servent msn= gamophyte aim= gamophyte email= gamophyte@comcast.net



    I made FMs before and I know DromEd. My 3dMax is down. This is interesting ot me though

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Awesome. There's a new guy in Thief 2 and he's Baaad! Maybe he's a Keeper Killer?

  13. #13
    I like the new model, looks great. One critique, if you allow: The hands seem too small to me. Rule of thumb is making them about as large as the face (chin to forehead).

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY
    Thanks again for the uplifting comments!! I'd like to take a minute and answer your replies:

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexius
    impressive...
    so do they high-poly AI naught lag?
    Not from where I'm sitting, but I'm sitting at an Athlon 64 machine, so I'll have to wait until beta testing time to see how it performs for slower machines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwaa2
    Looking good Phantom. I'd deffinately make the feet and hands bigger.

    So far I've gotten about 1800 polys to work fine in Dromed.
    (Skully mage and the Lizard man)
    Thanks Schwaa, long time no speak, when I get done with this FM I'll eventually revamp MMV. Anyway, I agree, feet and hands are too small, as are the legs and butt, I'll fix it. He's 1616 polys, and meshbld built it fine, aside from a couple stupid .e file things I could have spent five minutes fixing but instead spent five hours cuz I didn't know better. I'll try and write an AI tut for anim8or users sometime.

    Quote Originally Posted by dhin
    I wouldn't go over 2000 if you are gonna have more than one in a scene.
    I agree, even if you can import a 2000+ AI into Dark, it wouldn't be a good idea, the engine's just too old for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros
    That's looking great! Keep us updated.
    Thanks! This is probably the only AI from my mission that I'll post about, but I'll show you all the way to the final product for this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by SlyFoxx
    Damn Dark Engine still has some life in her 'eh!
    A lot more than I thought actually! I stopped for a little bit to learn the basics of QERadiant for The Dark Mod, which in turn has inspired me to push Dark a little bit further. I'm very happy with the way this FM is looking so far, I can't wait to release it! That's still a while away though...

    Quote Originally Posted by gamophyte
    I wonderd about this possiblity. Man.. I am your humble servent msn= gamophyte aim= gamophyte email= gamophyte@comcast.net

    I made FMs before and I know DromEd. My 3dMax is down. This is interesting ot me though
    Thanks very much! I actually use anim8or, I lack sufficient funds for max, but I plan on becoming familiar with Blender.

    Quote Originally Posted by sluggs
    Awesome. There's a new guy in Thief 2 and he's Baaad! Maybe he's a Keeper Killer?
    Really, he's the basic 'grunt' guard, that's why I've decided to post him here, because he's the only one of my AIs I want to show before release. Don't fret though, I have some very cool characters in mind that will appear in this FM.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eshaktaar
    I like the new model, looks great. One critique, if you allow: The hands seem too small to me. Rule of thumb is making them about as large as the face (chin to forehead).
    Thanks. Yes they are, they look like the sharpened ends of a tree limb in the game, so they need some work. I may have to shorten the arms a little to make them look right.

    ---------

    Anyway, I haven't decided if I will release this guy before or with my FM. After posting here I'm sure some of you would like to use it. If I do release it, it will be with an alternate skin than the one for my FM. More to come...

  15. #15
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    phantom, perhaps you can help me out them with finishing a bot that targa designed, he never got it to make a corpse model, all we have is the .bin files no access to the original 3ds file. i'll pm you some specifics, but the problem is that i can't get the .bin to convert back to .3ds. help from someone who understands ai modeling would be great.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: Taylors, SC
    Is this the 9800 poly model? I have the 3ds model and joints, but no joint planes. Maybe you should try and reach targa?

    I tried to reduce the polygons, with little success. As for a corpse, since it has to be under 1024 polys, I'd suggest the bot explode on death and have some of its parts fly around. We could manage to make a parts of it as corpse pieces each under 1024 polys.

    I'll send you the 3ds I have if you want.
    Shadowspawn's Thief Pages
    Darkness is always faster than light. No matter how fast light travels, it always finds the dark waiting for it.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX

    onion gravey

    Yes I thought you were doing a total hi poly conversion for thief, like multi levels for prophet mod. If so I will help you and join if your making a team

  18. #18
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    shadowspawn, exactly what i was thinking, bot death, i was going to take out the water damage leaving fire damage only, the bot works nicely, if you can send me the stuff for the bot that you have i can see what i can do to it.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Looking good with the tex Phantom.
    Real joy getting the shoulders to work good with the limti planes eh?

    I think they work best if you put an upper shoulder/clavical vertice just inside the limit plane and one just outside, same with the shoulder/arm limit plane.

    Then you get a fixed point on the clavical right before the shoulder and one on the upper arm next to the shoulder.

    And you get 3 sets of stretching polys on the shoulder (one between the 2 shoulder vertice sets, and one between the clavical/shoulder, and one between upperarm/shoulder.

    If that makes sense.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Canada, Ontario, Toronto
    I have a team, but no high-poly AI modellers.
    Somebody save us!


    Some fancy modelling there, by the way!

    ___________________________________________________
    The Hammerite Imperium Lead
    -Dromed Architecture Tutorial Supreme

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    This looks really great and is somewhat exciting! I wonder if it would be possible to do a full high-poly upgrade to Thief 2 AIs (maybet that's too many AI or too much work though).

    The only problem with that I see (other than possible framerate issues, which I have no problem with at all), is FMs that have made their own custom AI would now look like the outdated ones, whereas FMs that only used the standard AI will look cool with the upgrades!
    The Keep for Thief 1 and 2 FMs, Shadowdark for Thief 3 and Dark Mod FMs

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX

    agreed

    I was just thinking.. if we pull together all of us to make hi-Polly models to replace the original AI (files) we can replay thief2 missions with new models. Then for then on the FMs will just use this as a new standard from all of us, reskinned to their liking.

    Can I get a yes sir! And original kudos to prophet.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY
    Hey guys. I was out of town for a couple days. I'm on vacation from work right now, so I won't have much time for Thief stuff this week.

    Prophet is an FM I'm working on, which I hope to have done by the end of December or early next year. This FM will have all new textures, all new objects, and all new AI. This AI is the first one to be made for the project.

    I have thought of redoing all the AI for Thief 2, but it's not a project I'm currently undertaking. I think the focus should be on FMs right now. AI are just a single part of entire missions, and if we replace all the Thief 2 AI with high-poly counterparts, they'll probably look out of place.

    I think Thief II is great the way it stands, and if we're going to focus all our DromEd energy on something it's better suited for group projects to make better Fan Missions.

    My theory is if we can start an editing team, in which we exchange ideas internally, utilizing resources on the forums and elsewhere, we can come up with some unique and interesting things. If you'd be interested in joining a team like this email me, maybe we can get a good project going!

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: KY

    Updates!

    Well it's been over a month now and I'm just now getting back to working on this AI again. Most of my computer time is going to T2X. Anyway, since my last post I've changed my nick to Mudshovel, and here are some updates!:

    Click the thumbs for larger pics:
    ---------

    Here is a render from Anim8or with some polys shown.
    ---------

    Here is an in-game standing pose.
    ---------

    Here is an in-game taunt pose.
    ---------

    Lastly, a shot with three of the AI on screen, with show_stats on. You'll notice, the AI are 1600+ polys each, but even with 3 on screen the game doesn't lag, 50 fps consistently. I ran around backwards and watched them chase me, even in 500-600 poly areas of my mission I still kept a cosistent 50 fps. So the engine is capable of handling them fine, on my system at least.
    ---------
    There are still improvements to be made. I've fixed the elbows but the wrists need work, and also I think the legs, butt and feet need to be enlarged to proportion him better, and then I'll have to scale him down to fit the standard Thief size.

    That's all for now.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: England
    this is bloody amazing

    It makes you wonder why the highly paid pc game modellers are not as good as some guy doing it for a hobby.

    I bow down to you

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