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Thread: ULTRASPOILERS: How was TCP to have unfolded?

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by Senethro
    Ah, its too bad that TCP was never fully realised. If I was an eccentric millionaire able to pay for you guys to finish I might have done so. How come no "industry" games of this calibre are released? I would like to think there is an invisible market ready to receive this style of game.
    Because no-one in the industry is drunk 24-7.

    But if they did do it, I bet they could have made Emily walk around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senethro
    But who was Emily? I always had her figured for a mechanical substitute of a real emily who had died.
    That was what I was trying to set up with her - that she's not actually a human being. But that's not *quite* right.

    Emily was the first agent.

    When her Apollo Modifications started malfunctionining - specifically, The Link - they forcedly seperated her from it. The resultant psychic flux fucked up her conciousness entirely, leaving her in her current state. She still remembers bits of what it was like to be truly human, but can't really understand what it means anymore.

    (There was a little genre-metacriticism there, when talking about "Previous" agents - as in previous heroines in videogames. That is, most of them have parts of their brain clearly not working in favour of a great pair of legs)

    I may have just opened another Can of Worms since I haven't actually talked about the Link yet.

    Other things with Emily? Well, before her brain stopped working, she was the Other Woman in the relationship between Jo Parkes and Bobby Chaos, which was pretty important. Jo thinks Bobby went for her because he's such a tech-freak. What's more disturbing is that Jo's actually right.

    Oh yes - Bobby Chaos ends up asking Charlotte out on a date as she's escaping from the Underground base during Episode 4. He's actually the main love interest in the game, unbelievably.

    I was extremely fond of Emily, and was disappointed that I never got anywhere near her best scenes. She was very much the Frankenstein of the piece with a series of tragic speeches, the best (Paraphrase of favourite bit: "I remember kisses. How they felt. The saliva. That moistness. I remember liking them. I just don't remember why.) delivered after you find her, covered in gore, standing in the middle of the Cassandra HQ after she's killed everyone there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Senethro
    There were many strange things about the project (invisible barking dogs on anna's firing range, doors painted on walls) but one silly little thing that kept drawing my eye were the pawns that were only visible to the X-ray vision. Was this ever going to be explained or was it just a pleasing little mystery?
    Well, a lot of the stuff was purely functional stuff - the invisible dogs were a hangover from the way we originally got Anna to shoot down the firing range, for example. However, we were planning on turning them into part of the Meta-plot, as evidence that they're inside a videogame.

    In context, the door was a silly joke made by the guards to piss off Newbies. More importantly, it was also a criticism of games which just paint doors on walls and have them entirely non-functioning. It had no other planned function than that, though knowing us, we'd have worked out one.

    KG

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by TCPfan
    How about hosting a "Cassandra" server? Take some "in progress" mission maps (if any exist) and convert them to DXMP standard with all these weapons.
    I don't think you'd want to play around with most of the unfinished maps, to be honest. So probably no.

    KG

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    Quote Originally Posted by Brem_X_Jones
    He's actually the main love interest in the game, unbelievably.
    Flattering the audiance, again?

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Manchester
    Brem, do you have any plans to reuse this material? It would be a shame if it never got released in some form.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Was Already Taken
    Flattering the audiance, again?
    Actually, yeah. Or rather, indulging them.

    KG

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Crystal House
    Originally Posted by TCPfan
    How about hosting a "Cassandra" server? Take some "in progress" mission maps (if any exist) and convert them to DXMP standard with all these weapons.
    Wouldn't MP TCP degenerate into a camping session due to the high damage weapons. I can imagine it now with everyone crouched behind doors, doing nothing but holding a C36 for fear of stepping out into the open.
    Running battles with the UberKanon, however, would be great.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by Unheard Of
    Brem, do you have any plans to reuse this material? It would be a shame if it never got released in some form.
    Not really*. Some of the ideas may filter into some of the other stuff I write - there's certain characters in Cassandra who could be lifted, have the serial numbers rubbed off and used elsewhere. Jo, despite being one of the more unpopular characters, strikes me as a good idea which could be used elsewhere (Tara Palmer Tomkinson as Smartest Woman In The World). Many others are a tad on the derivative side. At their best pretty well executed derivative characters, but still a derivative character.

    (Actually, James was a lift and rework from a character I created for some Fantasy game I was running a while back. In short: A Polymath Brian Blessed, coked out of his gills.)

    KG

    *Did have some thoughts of reworking stuff into another media, but discarded it. I mostly rather prefer to push on with new stuff.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by O'Shuva
    Wouldn't MP TCP degenerate into a camping session due to the high damage weapons. I can imagine it now with everyone crouched behind doors, doing nothing but holding a C36 for fear of stepping out into the open.
    Running battles with the UberKanon, however, would be great.
    Also there should be a special attack which freezes every weapon, forcing them to intricately debate the nature of being and/or make nob gags.

    Actually, had some VERY VAGUE ideas for Cassandra Co-op (4 players - Anna/Bobby Chaos/Charlotte/Johnny Casino, ala Gauntlet), but wasn't stupid enough to even mention them to the rest of Narcissus.

    KG

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Crystal House
    How would one role-play Johnny Casino?

    "Johnny Casino's at the red base and Johnny Casino's thinking to himself what a nice, nice set of arses the defense has. Not that Johnny Casino has anything against the arses of the blue defense, Johnny would gaze at them all day if he could."

    And so on.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    You got it.

    Just channel your normal trash-talking l33t speak, correct the grammar, and put it in third person. Also add "Baby".

    KG

  11. #36
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Come to think of it it's a shame you DID spoil all this stuff. You could have worked many of the ideas into another mod on a different engine. D3Radiant? Unreal3?

    Good ideas are few and far between. If you guys had finished it really, really would've been something.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Speaking personally, I don't think I'll be working on another mod with the scope of Cassandra ever again.

    When AB and myself have talked about occasional desires to do something else, both of us are very much about setting our sights to a more realistic target.

    (Er... not saying that we'd be wanting to make another CS-clone, natch.)

    I'm personally tempted to do something with the T3 editor if they release it.

    EDIT: And for a mod which Wasn't Cassandra, I think the only stuff that's actively salvagable is the metagame stuff. The rest is far too tied into the current set up.

    KG
    Last edited by Brem_X_Jones; 8th Nov 2004 at 21:37.

  13. #38

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    Quote Originally Posted by Brem_X_Jones

    I'm personally tempted to do something with the T3 editor if they release it.
    Is there any reason not to use Thief II? Unreal might be a better engine for a commerical product, but you'd get more creative freedom using the Dark Engine. And the editing tools are available.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Was Already Taken
    Is there any reason not to use Thief II? Unreal might be a better engine for a commerical product, but you'd get more creative freedom using the Dark Engine. And the editing tools are available.
    A mixture of basic modernity and that the idea's very reliant on dynamic light sources.

    KG

  16. #41
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Yeah, the dynamic lights can be used very well. People moan about T3 not having many new features but dynamic lighting really opens the door on so much.

    Until Calendra's Legacy I thought DromEd would not be suitable for my FM, and the UT2k4 levels made me think T3Ed would be perfect. Post CL I realise that I can do it in DromEd, but truth is I want to do it in T3Ed when (when, not if) the release it.

    Brem, I'm surprised that PCGamer didn't feature much on the editor dilemma given the new(ish now) Extra Life section (which, btw, is v good).

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Me too. I mentioned to the team that they should do something on it but - well - pah.

    However, I'm currently working on an eight page feature about The Cradle, so they'll be more T3 stuff in Extra Life soon.

    Back to mapping the bloody thing.

    KG

  18. #43
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Nice. It'll be good to see some more T3 stuff in there.

    Don't forget to mention the editor and it's possible (dare I say imminent) release - the more people that know the more talented mappers/modders we are likely to.

    I hope to see some stuff by you or the CP teamwhen it comes out Brem. The ideas for CP were really great, it's be a shame to waste the visionary resources. Just follow through this time!

  19. #44
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    I love how, even in this thread, you manage to give out information non-linearly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brem_X_Jones
    I was extremely fond of Emily, and was disappointed that I never got anywhere near her best scenes. She was very much the Frankenstein of the piece with a series of tragic speeches, the best (Paraphrase of favourite bit: "I remember kisses. How they felt. The saliva. That moistness. I remember liking them. I just don't remember why.) delivered after you find her, covered in gore, standing in the middle of the Cassandra HQ after she's killed everyone there.
    What, what, WHAT?! Actually, I knew that SOMEONE would go nuts, my guess was it would be Emily or Anna with Emily first on my list (I probably have the wrong idea about Anna, anyway). Let me guess, Jo or Bobby Chaos are fatally woulded, and one dies in the other's arms, confessing their love, etc, etc?

    Could you give us a brief outline how characters not mentioned yet were going to develop, and perhaps their basic motivations throughout the story? Is James really that perverted? Are the guards to keep unwanteds out or wanteds in? Who's the chef? What happens if you make a basket? Does anyone else notice how you can look up Charlotte's skirt if you stand on the mirror-top table, and her panties are modelled? ("Those legs with that skirt") Who is Johnny Casino? (and will he ever have sex with Debbie?)

    Also, any chance of the script/story synopsis/design documents/scanned pictures of napkins with ideas being scanned in?

    P.s: You mentioned someone being bi in the spoilers thread. Do tell.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: The North, UK
    Its worth mentioning that about 70% of what Kieron is revealing here is news to the rest of the Narcissus Entity as well as to everyone else.

    Keep it up K.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    What can I say? Story stuff was kept in a special big file marked secret things to prevent everyone going mad by my long term plans for this nonsense.

    KG

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by CannedLizard
    What, what, WHAT?! Actually, I knew that SOMEONE would go nuts, my guess was it would be Emily or Anna with Emily first on my list (I probably have the wrong idea about Anna, anyway). Let me guess, Jo or Bobby Chaos are fatally woulded, and one dies in the other's arms, confessing their love, etc, etc?
    Well, she didn't strictly speaking go nuts. She's always been nuts, just that things start showing her roots a little more. Her purging of the base would be a direct order from Nicholas. None of the central cast - Anna, James, Jo, Stuart, Nicholas - would die in that particularly set-piece.

    However, it is your choice whether Emily lives through that moment. She raises a gun against her temple throughout that speech.

    Anna stays dangerous sane throughout. Her most solidified future role was if you decided to stay with the Cassandra Project after the "truth" is revealed. You sell out gloriously - cue conversations about your new pay as a member of the Rulers of the World or whatever. Cut to moving into your beautiful new penthouse... at which point you get a DU sniper round through the brain.

    Anyone remember that speech Anna made about what she would do if the Project failed? Well, there you go then.

    (Clearly, we couldn't continue the story if you accept the Secret Masters, but I'd rather give an option of being a shithead and a give you a definitive "ending" rather than forcing you into something that's not you)

    The end of Bobby and Jo was particualarly foggy - it was one of the ones that responded to the player's responses far too much to have a "definitive" end. Part of me think a genuine reconciliation wouldn't have ever happened between the pair of them. Stuart may try it. Jo would tell him to fuck off.

    Is James really that perverted?
    Yup, absolutely. Everything you found out about him in the first episode is try. Complete decadent.

    Are the guards to keep unwanteds out or wanteds in?
    Unwanted out, mainly, but with the danger of an agent going rogue, that was always beared in mind. None of the guards are really aware of what's going on any more than anyone else.

    Who's the chef?
    Er... Chef. Do you mean Chief?

    What happens if you make a basket?
    Ask Col. I've never made it.

    Does anyone else notice how you can look up Charlotte's skirt if you stand on the mirror-top table, and her panties are modelled? ("Those legs with that skirt")
    Yes, we did. What other option did we have?

    We were going to remove mirrors from the base at one point to avoid such things. Also, seeing that Charlotte didn't have a crawl animation. Man! We sucked so bad.

    Who is Johnny Casino?
    A meta-character really. He was someone from outside the system who I'd introduced by fictional magic. If anyone asked him, he's the one who knows he's in a videogame.

    Casino was fairly closely based on a real life friend of mine, with Johnny Casino being his alias and alter-ego for his Daily Radar work. Since reality/fiction boundary was one of my main themes, a character to mainly explore that would have been of use.

    Besides: I liked Johnny Casino as a character. Quite happy to steal him.

    (and will he ever have sex with Debbie?)
    That was the plot of Episode 4, entitled "Oh my God! He did what? That's just WRONG".

    Also, any chance of the script/story synopsis/design documents/scanned pictures of napkins with ideas being scanned in?
    Heh. Probably not. May dig out some of the funner map stuffs - or Col or AB, if he fancies.

    P.s: You mentioned someone being bi in the spoilers thread. Do tell.
    Who wasn't? Jo has a mild fashionista bi streak. Stuart has a dirty indie kid bi streak. James is a "true" bisexual - as in no preference one way or the other at all. I hoped to give the option for Charlotte to be Bi, but may have backed out of it - Lead character in lesbian acts for a mainly male audience strikes me as a bit tacky. Anna was definitely straight, despite half the people suspecting her of being gay. Most people aren't aware of the affair she had with the second agent - that is, the one who went rogue.

    KG

  23. #48
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Brem_X_Jones
    Who wasn't? Jo has a mild fashionista bi streak. Stuart has a dirty indie kid bi streak. James is a "true" bisexual - as in no preference one way or the other at all. I hoped to give the option for Charlotte to be Bi, but may have backed out of it - Lead character in lesbian acts for a mainly male audience strikes me as a bit tacky. Anna was definitely straight, despite half the people suspecting her of being gay. Most people aren't aware of the affair she had with the second agent - that is, the one who went rogue.
    Figures. When you mentioned that one of the characters was bi, I tried guessing...and realized they all could be.

    Anyway, what are Nicholas' motivations? He's had a successful past, was this created for him by the Secret Masters, or did it just bring him to their attention. If the former, why did they pick him? If the latter, how did they convince him? I guess the answers two both are that Narcissus drug/virus you mentioned.

    P.s:
    Quote Originally Posted by Brem_X_Jones
    Er... Chef. Do you mean Chief?
    It's been a while since I played it, but isn't the chef a guy we never meet in the first episode and puts lots of salt in Emily's soup to see if she notices, or was that someone else?
    Last edited by CannedLizard; 15th Nov 2004 at 20:00.

  24. #49
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2004

    Would Steve and Gary been killed (and this their heroic/redemptive death?) when Emily went postal? If so how does it be heroic?

    Also why did her "failsafe" not kick in after she started popping project staff?

    Also could someone plz tell me what was the deal with that guy in the bathroom who was "just practicing" torture/interrogation lines.

    Its a real shame this mod died Making a cool "taster" then leaving us all high and dry I really thought TCP was the coolest mod ever, but I guess the scope of what you guys took on was what killed the mod's future.

    Anyways could you release the unfisihed maps so we could get a glimpse of what might have been? Also if you made any other .u class files re: new episodes.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Crystal House
    Originally Posted by TCPfan
    Anyways could you release the unfisihed maps so we could get a glimpse of what might have been?
    What is it with some people wanting to see the unfinished maps? Leave Cassandra in peace rather than cracking open its ribcage just to see what's inside.

    Sorry, temporary insanity again.

    What was the link? Who was the second agent ("that bearded bastard")? And how did the Gary and that other guy know about the failsafe through "experience?" (I think I read somewhere).

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