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Thread: ULTRASPOILERS: How was TCP to have unfolded?

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001
    Location: The Doldrums

    *sigh*
    Your plans sound so interesting, there's a lot of ideas there that really appeal to me especially about Charlotte realising she's in a game and the "Narcissus" disease.

    What is everyone on the team doing now, modwise?

  2. #77
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Australia
    OK, my questions:

    Exactly what is the background behind Stuart/Bobby Chaos and Jo? There's been a reference to a past (now defunct) relationship but I figure there's more details to be had.

    Exactly who was the 2nd agent? When you do meet him, what kind of stuff does he reveal? Does Anna ever meet him again?

    More details on the three ending choices, please. I especially like the idea of taking control - a way of keeping humans human while removing the current bastards.

    How, exactly, do you prevent Emily from topping herself?

    What exactly does Nicholas know? Where does he end up at the conclusion?

    More details on "The Link", please.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Some answers, but shorter than they'd normally be. Hopefully still explains.

    "Exactly what is the background behind Stuart/Bobby Chaos and Jo? There's been a reference to a past (now defunct) relationship but I figure there's more details to be had."

    They were lovers, is the core of it. I don't think I've mentioned it yet, but Stuart cheated on Jo with Emily, before her breakdown. A simple love triangle is the cause of the animosity. Where it gets relevant is that Jo believes stuart only went for Emily because she was a posthuman semi-machine: that he loves technology that much. Funnily enough, she's actually right.

    Stuart ends up hitting on the Player, over the link, towards the end of the first mission.

    "Exactly who was the 2nd agent? When you do meet him, what kind of stuff does he reveal? Does Anna ever meet him again?"

    I hadn't actually given a name to the second agent, being one of the people I'd left to flesh out more as I came to him. He's the first person to set Charlotte along the lines to the truth - in the way of very general questions "Who profits?" and - importantly - "how does your link work?". The latter will lead to the history of Emily.

    I think I'd have made an opportunity for Anna and her Ex to meet, but probably left it to the player to decide whether it happens or not. We're very much in the bounds of speculation here.

    "More details on the three ending choices, please. I especially like the idea of taking control - a way of keeping humans human while removing the current bastards."

    The catch there is to actually rule the world effectively, you'll need to infect yourself with Narcissus in the same way the Secret Masters were. In other words, you've got no guarantee you'll manage to hold onto your ethics when you're in the seat of power.

    "How, exactly, do you prevent Emily from topping herself?"

    I pictured something similar to the end of Planescape Torment, with conversation options linked to your actions in the past towards Emily and what you've discovered. There's also the subtext of perhaps death is exactly what Emily needs; the girl's broken. Just because you can talk her down - lines I'd considered were appeals to revenge and basic obstinacy - doesn't mean that you *should*.

    "What exactly does Nicholas know? Where does he end up at the conclusion?"

    Nicholas knows everything about Cassandra. It's funders, what it's for, etc. He's also an abuser of Narcissus himself.

    In pulp terms, he's a bad guy.

    "More details on "The Link", please."

    This thread is so long, I can't remember what I actually said about the Link.

    The link is, essentially, a cloned brain of Charlotte in a jar. In the true pulp fashion. The link operates through true telepathy, based on twin studies. However, the brain is abstractly kept in a non-concious semi-vegetative state, so it's effectively biological hardware. Emily's went fully concious and started to interfere with her, and in a panic they killed the brain - the psychic schism which lead to Emily's current state. The Second agent, smarter, when it too has achieved conciousness actually stole his brain, and keeps it still.

    Your brain too starts developing conciousness as the series progresses, starting to communicate with you through the message line of your HUD. That is, actually part of your controls rather than via the Link itself. It's another way to get information to the player, as well as a little spooky. First time was to happen on the way out of the underground base (Episode 4).

    Hey!
    Hey! Listen to me!
    Stop!
    That's right./Oh, have it your own way. [Depending on trigger]
    Hello, sister. I have something to tell you.

    And so on.

    KG
    KG

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Sat at my desk.
    (P.S. The door in the base you can't open was to hold the Brain Room in a later episode.)

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004

    I'm still wondering about the plans you had for the Apollo Mods, since there were always some empty slots there. What other Apollo Mods did you have planned for use (or what ideas for them had you come up with)? Anything radically different to the abilities that the Deus Ex augs granted you?

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    True answer: we hadn't decided, but wanted to leave room to make shit up.

    We did have a version of bullet time working in a very early code-base, but dumped it. I vaguely remember someone else in the community inventing one, but I dare say they wouldn't have got around our problem (which made us dump it, bar it being a lot of work. Also, hugely game unbalancing).

    The problem being is that everything slowed down... apart from objects. So things like barrels falling and boxes thrown would happen at normal speed.

    KG

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: New York, New York
    if the Link is actually your cloned brain, i'm guessing Spake is involved somehow, and knows about it? he's one of my favorite characters, although i always found him slightly creepy.

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by DocSkrilla
    if the Link is actually your cloned brain, i'm guessing Spake is involved somehow, and knows about it? he's one of my favorite characters, although i always found him slightly creepy.
    Yeah, Spake performed the operation on all of them, as well as growing and looking after the brain - but didn't develop the technology. Spake was the first man Nicholas hired. However, he still doesn't actually know the Secret Masters are funding them.

    KG

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    The link is, essentially, a cloned brain of Charlotte in a jar. In the true pulp fashion. The link operates through true telepathy, based on twin studies. However, the brain is abstractly kept in a non-concious semi-vegetative state, so it's effectively biological hardware. Emily's went fully concious and started to interfere with her, and in a panic they killed the brain - the psychic schism which lead to Emily's current state. The Second agent, smarter, when it too has achieved conciousness actually stole his brain, and keeps it still.
    Why did they keep reusing tech that fails like that?

    Also, when you say the brain was cloned, do you mean a carbon copy of Charlotte's brain at the time of the operation or cloned in the traditional sense of taking some of her DNA and then growing a second brain? 'Cause if it's the latter then the brain is *not* the same.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    They re-use it because it's best they've got and they can't operate without it. Remember: Only the first one was an actual accident. Agent 2 stole his own brain - it was him who went rogue more than anything else. It's cutting edge science. These things don't always work that well.

    I'd rather keep the biology nebulous. I'm aware that in an organisationational sense brains alter. I was more riffing off brains in jars, to be honest.

    KG

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: New York, New York
    brains in jars are always amazing. see also: the Migo and H.P. Lovecraft.

    okay, so spake isn't in on the conspiracy, and narcissus. so:
    was emily ever privy to knowledge about the Secret Masters?
    how was the second Agent going to contact charlotte, and why? what motivated him to have anything to do with Cassandra, if he had gone rogue and went into hiding?
    was charlotte going to be given the chance to interact with the second Agent?
    does Anna know anything about this?

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by DocSkrilla
    was emily ever privy to knowledge about the Secret Masters?
    how was the second Agent going to contact charlotte, and why? what motivated him to have anything to do with Cassandra, if he had gone rogue and went into hiding?
    was charlotte going to be given the chance to interact with the second Agent?
    does Anna know anything about this?
    Well, Emily would *know* about the Secret Masters. Everyone on Cass knows stuff about them. Just that she doesn't know about the link between the two organisations. In her current state, then - yes - she knows more than she did when she was more human. It's just that it means nothing to her.

    The 2nd Agent was going to appear at some point in the second or possibly third mission. He's attacking the same site the player is, and has killed about half the base. The player gets a chance to chat to him across a protective screen. He's gone rogue, but he's still following his own mandate against the Secret Masters. In a particularly bloody fashion.

    He's pretty much what Anna is thinking of when she said "They've always been able at hiring killers" line, followed by the insult towards their personality "I'd imagine you'll be proof of that too". Not bitter, our Anna.

    Bar the fact he went Rogue, Anna doesn't really suspect the Secret Masters. If she even vaguely suspected it, she'd be investigating much harder than she already is. She does know about all the Apollo modifications stuff, however.

    KG

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004

    Ooh here's one I've been wondering (actually surprised nobody asked it already):

    Was there any particular reason(s) as to why the mod and the organisation within it were called "The Cassandra Project"? It just seems like an unusual name to give to something - just who the hell is Cassandra anyway?

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    Last edited by Tim Was Already Taken; 5th Feb 2005 at 14:33.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    As Tim says - it was just a classical allusion to the ignored prophetess. Both hold truths about the world which everyone else wouldn't believe.

    I liked the classical alusion as it tied in with some of Dr. Spake's modern pantheon stuff. And I liked the classical alusion because I like the classical alusions.

    KG

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: New York, New York
    what with Spake's intense interest in being godlike, and his speeches etc, i thought pretty much everyone would have figured exactly which Cassandra the group was referring to. speaking of the wiki, methinks we need to start a TCP wiki, since they're always useful. besides, State became one giant wiki, and it seems a lot of the people on this board frequent the State forums.
    mr. gillen and co, how exactly did the plot for the project evolve? were you coming up with new ideas continually, after production had started, or were all facets of the plot fixed in stone by then? are master design documents/plot outlines/timelines etc in existence? will we ever be able to take a look at them?

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.
    Quote Originally Posted by DocSkrilla
    mr. gillen and co, how exactly did the plot for the project evolve? were you coming up with new ideas continually, after production had started, or were all facets of the plot fixed in stone by then? are master design documents/plot outlines/timelines etc in existence? will we ever be able to take a look at them?
    The plot was pretty much two stranded. The major arc, which is what we've been mainly talking about in this thread, was pretty much private dialogue - which is why various Cass members are actually surprised where it headed. I didn't want to say everything when we were only working at the start, as I wanted us to concentrate on the actual moment.

    The actual plot inside of the missions itself was developed relatively organically, in terms of generation of ideas and then me trying to create a synthesis of it all. The first mission - which would have been the first four episodes - developed from my original conceit as ideas for scenes and characters ebbed and flowed.

    It's a shame - in terms of concrete work which we could show, most of it is from the first mission... which, of course, is stuff which is out of context of the players. It's only the larger over-arcing themes that were properly introduced in the intro, because they were rooted in the characters and the set up.

    It's notable that as our plans altered, the shape of the mission altered. It wasn't originally planning on being a village in the middle of nowhere - that came from Col making some military base outsides, and deciding that we'd rather do something more elaborate; the argument was that we've seen enough military bases, and if we didn't show stuff immediately, we'd lose the audience.

    (Looking back, I'm not sure we were right.)

    So the village was concieved, which made the plot for the area expand hugely. Col worked on the original map while I went off and worked out why village of cultists would be over a base...

    And then we decided that it was too big to do in one episode, and reduced the village on the surface to be much smaller, mainly as an intro to the sinister underground base

    Then, we decided to release the Cassandra Base as a stand alone mission. In which case, we decided we needed to re-expand the village to make it an episode by itself, which lead to some of my favourite stuff we had planned for the mission.

    (And the Cassandra Base altered when we decided we were releasing it in a stand alone state - since there was no action in it originally, AB had the brilliant idea of a Danger room series of things to play around with the tools on, which he swiftly constructed)

    KG

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004

    Well you learn something new every day! Thanks for the update on the "Cassandra" origins - very interesting.

    Meh, who said that computer games aren't educational?

  19. #94
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2004

    Just a few more questions ...

    Just a few more questions.

    "How, exactly, do you prevent Emily from topping herself?"

    I pictured something similar to the end of Planescape Torment, with conversation options linked to your actions in the past towards Emily and what you've discovered. There's also the subtext of perhaps death is exactly what Emily needs; the girl's broken. Just because you can talk her down - lines I'd considered were appeals to revenge and basic obstinacy - doesn't mean that you *should*.
    You mentioned something about Emily killing everyone in the Project Headquarters, while reminiscing over the feeling of a kiss? Would this have been what happened if you prevented Emily from committing suicide?

    We did have a version of bullet time working in a very early code-base, but dumped it.
    What do you mean by "bullet time?"

    One final question, what was the deal with the guy in the toilet who was "just practicing" torture lines? Would that have appeared later on in the game?

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: The North, UK
    Do you think there is a chance that could become irritating?

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    He asked a question and I posted a link that answers it. Where's the problem?

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: The North, UK
    I'm only joshing.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England
    Yeah. So am I.

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: New York, New York
    c'mon people, kiss and make up.

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