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Thread: Taffer Art *Post thy works Here*

  1. #426
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    Your just jealous you don't look like that. :P
    Hehe, that hits the nail on the head.

    Flipation's just another sheep in the flock.
    I think flipation did and damn good job. No it's not totally in line with T2X (Clockworks pic is closer and great as well), but most of us like it and if you cant handle drawings of attractive women I suggest you get off the internet.

    Thank you for taking the time to share your talents us flipation-it's the nature of the thief community for shit to be slung on talented folks-but not all of us are that way.

  2. #427
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Quote Originally Posted by taffer9 View Post
    Well this has gone over the top
    TY I do try. Chill out would ya, it's a joke for god sake, guess you don't know what one is. No wait, I am dead serious.

  3. #428
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2003
    Location: Australia
    Very talented piece of art. But I don't think women should be viewed as sex objects, its just not right. They should be respected, everyone should.
    And with that much flesh showing she wouldn't be doing much stealth work.

  4. #429
    Indeed. Men and women are equal. But if we leave all of our sexual prejudices behind us, it's bloody well done.

  5. #430
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    But I don't think women should be viewed as sex objects, its just not right.
    'right' is meaningless in this case-artists have always used the sensual form of a woman to draw attention to their work. That will never stop-AMEN! Besides if a female artist drew Garrett in a speedo-the guys on the forum wouldn't be offended because we'd be laughing too hard.

  6. #431
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2006
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sneak View Post
    'right' is meaningless in this case-artists have always used the sensual form of a woman to draw attention to their work. That will never stop-AMEN! Besides if a female artist drew Garrett in a speedo-the guys on the forum wouldn't be offended because we'd be laughing too hard.
    Gosh.... I don't even WANT to imagine that...

  7. #432
    Why, exactly would we be laughing at a scantilly-clad Garrett and not this scantilly-clad mockery of Zaya?

    You know, Dr. Sneak, I would get off the internet, but there's still billboards. . .and magazines, and tv, and movies and countless men on the street staring at me and other women, following them around thinking it's their right to make comments on womens' bodies and letting them know in every way possible that they're just walking sexholes to them. . .and a billion other ways in which women are unwillingly objectified.
    You know, Dr. Sneak. . I can't exactly get off the internet and be free of it, because sexism is EVERYWHERE, so forgive me if I'm a little disgruntled, but I believe in trying to point out the problem and change it instead of running from it, 'cause there's really nowhere to run to.

  8. #433
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Taffer View Post
    Why, exactly would we be laughing at a scantilly-clad Garrett and not this scantilly-clad mockery of Zaya?
    You can laugh all you want, but you aren't right now. You're whining. Stop that.

  9. #434
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: <Insert witty statement here>
    Mmm, your right, you CAN'T run from sexism. But you can try to stop it, but, frankly, no mater what you do, you can't stop all of it. There will still be men who just see you as a tool for pleasure, and, well, there's little that can be done about it, sure, you can change a few, but not all of it. In the end though, we are bickering over a DRAWING OF A NON EXISTING PERSON. Let's just move on people........

  10. #435
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    Ok, I can't help but step in here and insert my opinion on the matter.

    On the one side, this picture is well done. The artwork is undeniably very well done. I do not see the anatomy issue with the arm that was mentioned, and the atmosphere of the docks/ship behind her is very evocative of the feel of the game world. Over all, it is a very good job.

    That said, I agree with Lady Taffer in that I really do not care for this style of art. It has long annoyed me that the 'typical' fantasy art is that of scantily clad women in unrealistic situations for the theme of the picture. While this 'style' is a recognized style, I find it a bit frustrating. To me, when I look at a picture, I like to be pulled in to it. So I can 'be' there, or see what is happening in a picture.

    This sort of picture, no matter how well done is not that way. You get stuck on the ridiculous aspects. They would not be riding a horse mostly naked, for several reasons from the ew to the ouch. They would not be going into battle with their chests unsupported and bared ('oh, yes, please, be my guest and cut them off, I won't mind because once I've completed my physically impossible moves, you'll be dead and I"ll be lighter!" *coughs*), never mind thighs, bellies and other areas that could be seriously injured by a single cut or shot. Or this one. Well, I don't have to point out the issues with this one, as they have already been pointed out.

    As a woman, I do find them rather offensive, both for the illogical nature of these sort of picture and the 'focus' of it. On the other hand, men being what they are, its not likely to change in the next few hundred years, either. So I won't scream about it too much, so long as its not *my* man looking or painting such things. lol (Then again, the men can probably come back with how some women are about them. . .and from what I have seen from *some* women. . .I'd have to agree. . .people in general seriously need a new focus!)

    But at the same time, the artist in me thinks men have it right. Women have very interesting forms. Graceful, beautiful, and in general the lines are smooth and appealing. The femenine form says a lot of different things from the. . .blockier male forms. (that sounds funny, but you artists will know what I mean. ) As a drawer-in-training I far prefer drawing women to men. But I do prefer them to be less 'sexually' oriented as story oriented. Pictures that I can imagine myself in, perhaps. This style. . .sort of goes thunk and I cannot get into it, nor can I ever 'see' myself in their place.

    Anyway, thats my somewhat rambly take on it.

    Keep up the good work, flipation, and perhaps next time you can offer a picture that will not be quite so shocking? lol That is one way to check the pulse of these boards though!

  11. #436
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    Whoa.

    First thing I think of when I see these posts.
    The artwork is well done.
    Sexist, but well done.

    There is alot of sexism in this world and it's terrible. We're not sex objects - no one is. And it's horrendous to be treated as one.
    Shit happens.
    And you know what?
    There should be at least ONE PLACE no one should have to worry about anything sex-related.
    These forums.

    So let's stop the debates. It's not worth it.
    Flipation posted something of interest, but it's at the point where it's gone TOO FAR (broadhead arrows shooting out of breasts? come on.) and needs to be dropped.

    We're not here to debate on sex, women, absurd outfits, or pinups.
    These are the Thief forums, and these last few posts aren't even close to discussing the abovementioned.

  12. #437
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    You know, Dr. Sneak, I would get off the internet, but there's still billboards. . .and magazines, and tv, and movies and countless men on the street staring at me and other women, following them around thinking it's their right to make comments on womens' bodies and letting them know in every way possible that they're just walking sexholes to them. . .and a billion other ways in which women are unwillingly objectified.
    Some men might go around talking to you as though you're just an object, but not all of us do. Just because I enjoyed some sexy artwork doesn't mean I go around treating women like trash in real life. Women can and do pursue men they want either to get off or get something they want from them so sexism is a little more than just horny guys running wild. Men can also be objectified and treated like trash as well. Human beings arent telepaths that can look into the soul of a person-so we judge by appearances by nature.

    There is alot of sexism in this world and it's terrible. We're not sex objects - no one is. And it's horrendous to be treated as one.
    Shit happens.
    And you know what?
    There should be at least ONE PLACE no one should have to worry about anything sex-related.
    These forums.

    So let's stop the debates. It's not worth it.
    Flipation posted something of interest, but it's at the point where it's gone TOO FAR (broadhead arrows shooting out of breasts? come on.) and needs to be dropped.
    Pardon me, but with some people slinging insults around implying that us guys are sexist morons just because we liked that piece of art-there will be a response. If people want political correctness, TTLG is the
    wrong place to be.

  13. #438
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2006
    I'm well aware that "there will be a response.". But it doesn't need to get into debates. This thread is for artwork, not debates on the outside world and other things that connect to that.
    I'm not trying to offend anyone.
    And I don't want to sling around "men are pigs" insults because I don't think they are.
    I just don't think we need to expand anymore on this subject.

  14. #439
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    In my last post I'd gone about it with light humor. Really that's the extent of it. People should really stop using this as an anchor for "sexism."

    1. There are tons of women who look like this, believe it or not

    2. Sex is not denigrating, not in all cases, it's often empowering for women. People have to live after all, practical living comes before high moral standards.

    3. Those who don't take pleasure in being hollered at ought to speak for themselves and NOT all womankind; plenty of women enjoy the attention.

    4. And really, there's no one absolute way to go about this. This is a capitalist economy where practically everything is for sale. If you work a job, you're selling your labor; if you take your cloth off for the camera, you're selling your looks. I think to outright condemn this is a disservice to yourself as it only works to highlight the sense of futility - this IS how it works. I've been in similar situations - different subject, similar nature. You can speak out about it, just gotta watch your tone of voice, focus on yourself and not let yourself be condescending. Upgrade that black-n-white model. It's definitely not as bad as Lady Taffer made it out to be.
    Last edited by Jashin; 24th Nov 2006 at 02:26.

  15. #440
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia

  16. #441
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Hui! That Ramirez guard is great, espacially how the modell texture is turned into something "real". And I'll ask mama to buy me the Cradle watercolour. And the one from the Pagan Sanctuary.

  17. #442
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeshibu View Post
    You can laugh all you want, but you aren't right now. You're whining. Stop that.

    I don't get what you're saying. I'm genuinely interested in why a scantilly-clad Garrett would be laughed off the boards, but not a scantilly-clad Zaya. Enquiring minds want to know!

    Anyway, Jashin, it's true that sex can be empowering for women---but only if it's on THEIR terms. It's not empowering when it's determined by a man.. like, if a woman works sexually for a man or how beautiful or sexy she is is determined by a man.

    Also, the anatomy issue I noted with the arm is that it looks like a smooth cylindrical tube. There should be some muscle definition in that arm.

    And lastly, Clearing. . those are awesome!

  18. #443
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Taffer
    Also, the anatomy issue I noted with the arm is that it looks like a smooth cylindrical tube. There should be some muscle definition in that arm.
    No, women with muscles are not sexy. Women with weapons must still have their feminine thin arms. And long fingernails. And no armour over their belly. This is the woman of the future! Gimme the future, gimme the future, gimme the...well...

  19. #444
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    No, women with muscles are not sexy.
    That depends, bodybuilding style muscles don't look great on a woman, but check out how great olympic swimmers look-they little or no body fat and very muscular, but it's lean muscle mass which has high endurance more applicable to sports and combat.

    I'm genuinely interested in why a scantilly-clad Garrett would be laughed off the boards, but not a scantilly-clad Zaya. Enquiring minds want to know!
    Garrett in speedos would be laughed at by the guys because most of us arent fags you idiot.

    I'm putting Lady Taffer on ignore now, I recommend everyone else do the same-she's spammed up the thread enough already.

  20. #445
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    Lady Taffer is talking about muscle definition, as in the shape/curve of the arm, NOT about making the arm look like a body builder. Just some shaping there. And now I look at it, I agree. It could use a little definition there. Not so much to make the arm look like it belongs on a man, but a few lines to indicate there is shaped and used muscle.

    And, Dr Sneak, Lady Taffer was only stating her opinion about the picture. A little emphatically, but she was not over the top, nor was she 'spamming' this thread. This thread is for the posting and DISCUSSION of art. If we can't discuss it, whats the point? Nor is everyone going to agree on all points all the time. Just because you dont' agree with someone doesn't mean you need to put them on ignore. I think that is rather extreme. Besides, whats the fun if everyone agrees? If someone posts a 'contrary' opinion, they need to be allowed to have that, rather than feel they have to justify their position or defend it because they see things in a way that is not popular.

    And I feel rather bad for this artist too. He's become rather silent since posting.

  21. #446
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    And, Dr Sneak, Lady Taffer was only stating her opinion about the picture. A little emphatically, but she was not over the top, nor was she 'spamming' this thread. This thread is for the posting and DISCUSSION of art. If we can't discuss it, whats the point? Nor is everyone going to agree on all points all the time. Just because you dont' agree with someone doesn't mean you need to put them on ignore. I think that is rather extreme. Besides, whats the fun if everyone agrees? If someone posts a 'contrary' opinion, they need to be allowed to have that, rather than feel they have to justify their position or defend it because they see things in a way that is not popular.
    I'm all for discussion about art, however Lady Taffer went beyond that into a tirade that made out every guy on the forum that had something positive to say about that piece of art into a sexist idiot. You can say 'I don't like this' and that's fine, but lashing out and attacking people and implying they're pigs for liking some nice pinup art which had no nudity or pornographic reference went too far.

  22. #447
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    Now it's time to contribute some art of my own-well not exactly. A FM author by the name of John D. is a good friend of mine that recently left the Thief community to pursue other things. However he gave me several years worth of work which ranges from abandoned dromed missions, storylines, texture families, fan fiction and so on. One of these gifts was some artwork relating to one of his later fan missions Deep Trouble 2 where a supercomputer called Mother(who was played by the very talented Nightwalker) gets the wrong switch flipped and offs a whole base of Mechanists. John had a few different ideas on how he might use Mother in future storylines which he e-mailed to me along with some concept art. It's clear he wanted the character to go from a Hal-9000 style machine into something more mobile.

    One of his prototype drawings.

    A guy on Edios named MountianDewNut gave him a hand and created this image
    (without the Egyptian style headdress).

    Before I got caught up in working on the FM I'm building at the moment, I played around with paint shop and tried to color the thing in (I thought blue and sliver with a little gold would be a good Mechanist combo) and add the headdress that was on the original prototype (metal hair looks cool but unrealistic to me)but as you can see I'm no artist.

    Imagine having that thing hunting you in an FM!

  23. #448
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr Sneak View Post

    Garrett in speedos would be laughed at by the guys because most of us arent fags you idiot.
    I don't need to call you an idiot, you just proved it yourself.

    Also, I didn't say "Garrett in speedos" I said a "Scantilly-clad Garrett"
    Most men probably would laugh, sadly, because most of these men are horribly terrified and insecure of their own sexuality. To be honest, on the flip-side of things, I would be laughing my ass off at that pinup of Zaya if such blatant female objectification weren't so depressingly common.

    Women with muscles may not be sexy to YOU, Beleg. . but you're not the only person on this planet and there is not any ONE standard of sexiness out there.

    I don't believe I called any man here a sexist pig, or anything similar. Though I am disappointed with the subject of the picture, I actually do really like the background a lot. The moon is particularly well done, I think.

  24. #449
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2006
    Oh yeah, ingenious. "She's standing up for herself, so let's all put her on ignore. " Is that how you always treat people in a discussion?

    We're discussing ART here and certainly have the right to do so in an art thread. Granted, sometimes the discussion of art styles shifts into the discussion of ethics, but that's inevitable, and certainly isn't something you could call spam.

    Btw, the picture posted by Beleg Cuthalion, is a PERFECT incarnation of the female fantasy stereotype. An impossible volume of perma-brushed hair, 'scant' armour with still obviously a very high armor-class, including arm and leg guards as if they'd protect her with ALL of her vital organs obviously exposed, and a lot of other junk that has no function other than looking cool (and possibly cutting yourself on when reaching to scratch your back ), the frame of a teenager, and perfect unscarred skin.
    If that's your version of the future, I sure hope I won't live to see it.

    1. There are tons of women who look like this, believe it or not
    I wonder where you get that impression from.

    Watch this, really, it's worth it.

    http://www.campaignforrealbeauty.ca/flat2.asp?id=6852

    Btw, clearing, that link is awesome. O_O Thanks for posting it.

  25. #450
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    Oh yeah, ingenious. "She's standing up for herself, so let's all put her on ignore. " Is that how you always treat people in a discussion?

    We're discussing ART here and certainly have the right to do so in an art thread. Granted, sometimes the discussion of art styles shifts into the discussion of ethics, but that's inevitable, and certainly isn't something you could call spam.
    The rant went beyond 'standing up for herself' and I wasn't the only one that took note of that. Ethics are great but I don't think a nice drawing of a fictional character in a sexy pose justified the reaction.

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