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Thread: Taffer Art *Post thy works Here*

  1. #451
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: <Insert witty statement here>
    This is totally out of hand, IMO (Which probably means relativley little) both sides took a relativley over the top position. (Dr. Sneak's rather intense remark that guys couldn't care less about this sort of thing and thus women shouldn't care, as well as Lady Taffer's complaint about the art being somewhat sexist.) But, now it's just blown even bigger, now with Dr. Sneak taking this like Lady Taffer went on an intense rant that all men were pigs and such, and well, Lady T, your not really SOOTHING the matter yourself. I'm going thus take the position of the snobby middle man and say that let's just drop it....


    Or if you really want to, carry on....

  2. #452
    Unless Dr. Sneak IS one of these "sexist pigs" he presumes I'm talking about, he'd have no need to get upset.

    Anyway, I've pretty much said all I needed to say on the matter. I know flame wars don't solve anything and the most they do is make both parties adhere to their own beliefs even more strongly, so. . egh. .

  3. #453
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2005
    Location: Canada
    I think most people who object to the 'sexy' art style flipation used are actually unable to figure out just why they find it so distasteful. The most obvious reason seems to be that it's sexist men depicting women as sex objects. However, I don't believe this is necessarily true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Taffer View Post
    something that looks like what a good 90% of ALL male artists mass-produce.
    From what I've seen, the statistic is probably more like "90% of fantasy artists" - including females. Usually, these sexified characters are presented as being powerful women (who probably use their own sex appeal to take advantage of men) rather than mere 'objects'.

    It's modern sexual expression. People, both male and female, are culturally programmed to believe the 'ideal' woman must be 'sexy', and that in order to be 'sexy' a woman must look like an airbrushed magazine model, pop star, or rap video bimbo, or something. Make-up, exposed cleavage and thighs, waxed eyebrows, a shiny tan, and so forth. Personally, I find this 'ideal woman' exceedingly shallow, fake, and quite simply aesthetically displeasing.

    The reason this isn't necessarily sexist is because there's a male equivalent. Look at underwear packaging: the hairless, muscular models do a really poor job of demonstrating how the underwear will fit the majority of the men who intend to buy it. The sexified-'ideal'-female does seem to be much more pervasive, though.

    When this modern sexual expressiveness is put into the context of a medieval or pseudo-medieval setting such as Thief, it clashes quite strongly to people who already find it tacky and unsophisticated.

  4. #454
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001

    Hey, here is a brilliant idea, why don't you all start a thread in comm chat, yes I said comm chat about sexism, and the lovely things that go along with sexism, and debate all you want over there. Or someone split the last few pages, and continue this tyrate over in comm chat.

    For the love of god, keep this thread about art, and the pictures that are posted. There seems to be a cluttered mess on the last few pages.

  5. #455
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    Hey, here is a brilliant idea, why don't you all start a thread in comm chat, yes I said comm chat about sexism, and the lovely things that go along with sexism, and debate all you want over there. Or someone split the last few pages, and continue this tyrate over in comm chat.
    Yeah taking that in CommChat would be a great idea! I've already abandoned talking about it myself.

  6. #456
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu
    Jesus Christ, people. What's next? You all going to get hot under the collar because Cubism is too angular? Pin-Up art is Pin-Up art -- it's got definite rules of style as far as composition, content, and intent are concerned. It's a genre in its own right.

    OH MY GOD THAT JACKSON POLLOCK WHY CAN'T HE DRAW THINGS THAT LOOK LIKE STUFF? WHY DOES REUBENS INSIST ON PAINTING FAT NEKKED GIRLS DANCING AROUND?

    Seriously. Get grips. On both sides. This wouldn't have gone as far as it did without a certain "Doctor" fanning the flames, don't think I don't realise that.

  7. #457
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Quote Originally Posted by Gingerbread Man View Post
    Cubism is too angular?
    Why yes it is. /me runs for the hills.

  8. #458
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: Go is to the fountain.

    picassu

    ..U

  9. #459
    BANNED
    Registered: Oct 2005
    Location: The shadow
    Jesus Christ, people. What's next? You all going to get hot under the collar because Cubism is too angular? Pin-Up art is Pin-Up art -- it's got definite rules of style as far as composition, content, and intent are concerned. It's a genre in its own right.
    Indeed it does and most of us recognized it for that.
    This wouldn't have gone as far as it did without a certain "Doctor" fanning the flames, don't think I don't realise that.
    I wasn't fanning anything GBM, I just dont like seeing artists that make good work get flamed, if you had created some good artwork and someone flipped out over it, I would have stuck up for you as well. I'm sure we'll never see anything from flipation again now.

  10. #460
    Previously Important
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Caer Weasel, Uelekevu
    Regardless of anything, and I don't think I actually disagree with anything anyone's said -- not THAT much, anyway -- this isn't really the venue to discuss sexism in genre art. That really would be a topic for CommChat, and you might actually get some decent debate on the subject. Might.

    Anyway, Dr Sneak's point is a valid one in that nowhere yet in this thread had anyone made anything even remotely resembling personal criticism. Hell, for the most part no one even made any technical criticism.

    This is basically a thread to present art that you think people might like. Trust me when I say that if this had started as a critiquing thread, it would be a damned sight shorter than it is now and more than a few people would be crying. So let's try to continue doing what we've been doing for the past 18 pages or whatever. Well, 16 or so if you remove the stuff that's been getting really pointy.

  11. #461
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Taffer
    Women with muscles may not be sexy to YOU, Beleg. . but you're not the only person on this planet and there is not any ONE standard of sexiness out there.
    Well, I fear I've lost my ability to express irony without smilies. All I wanted to say is that I find it a little ridiculous how "fighting (climbing etc.)" women in Computer games or even movies don't have the muscles you would usually develop when doing this all day long (as they're usually supposed to). But all this just to make them still feminine and sexy, which is kind of demoting them. In fact, since I'd like women doing some crazy things, I would also regard their muscles...or body as a whole. And of course only few things like fighting or climbing make you look like a body builder.

    PS: Yes, Episkopos is right, I just read it afterwards.

  12. #462
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    Location: Madrid

    The artist ponit of vieew

    Oh My god! what a lot of post does my illustration. Of course it goes in the eternal discussion about the female role in art.

    Cause my native languaje is not english I not able to get the 100% thoghts of the posts. Also I cannot discuss as far as I wanted about this large thread. But I would like to express some ideas form the point of view of the artist, that most of you will know and agree.

    All the male artist likes to draw naked women (that is genetic coded in chromosome Y), the smooth line and curves of a woman was ever more beautiful for the eyes of the people than the male body. Lot of things we generally likes or dislikes are deep coded in or genoma so we have to live withm them and know it but could be pointless discussing about them.

    We should see that the things that are in the books, games, movies, tv, music, pictures, etc. (all the art statements) are beyond reality and gets into the realms of fantasy (and always try to focus our attention to buy something). So we just need to enjoy them, get inspired by, but never try to transform them into reality because would be dissapointing (so don't get confused with tv spots or you will buy things you don't need ).

    Art is what artist make not what people expect. So art is no sexism, sexism is in how people react about a piece of art (or any fact of their lifes).

    No matter the kind of craft you do somebody will love and somebody will hate, but I think an upper state of the art comes when it makes people think and discuss the matters of their social and moral status. In this case I got amazed of the sex wars I have started.

    The pinups I made are in realms of fantasy and I not expect to find them in real world, I draw as a hobby because I love it, and I draw what gets me inspired and what I like. If I liked men I will draw men in speedo instead of women.
    Pin up artisit likes to make idealized visions of women because we are drawing what we like and are making fantasy, of course we know that reality is another thing far from or illustrations. So don't try at home become a pinup, I like them on the paper and the cover of books and magazines just for the pleasure of my eyes, not to find them on the real world.


    About Zaya, let me say that is the most dressed pinup I ever made. So if you want to see sexiest pin-ups, visit my page and you will think that my vision of Zaya is not a kind of sexbomb. I just gave her a sexy appearance far from she would be dressed in the game (if will wanted to draw her in the mood of the game I had drawn a pair of eyes ambushed in a dark corner and this thread was never have begun).

    David.

    PD: If this thread jumps to another place let me know!
    Last edited by flipation; 26th Nov 2006 at 13:26. Reason: Mistakes when writting

  13. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    Well, I fear I've lost my ability to express irony without smilies. All I wanted to say is that I find it a little ridiculous how "fighting (climbing etc.)" women in Computer games or even movies don't have the muscles you would usually develop when doing this all day long (as they're usually supposed to). But all this just to make them still feminine and sexy, which is kind of demoting them. In fact, since I'd like women doing some crazy things, I would also regard their muscles...or body as a whole. And of course only few things like fighting or climbing make you look like a body builder.

    PS: Yes, Episkopos is right, I just read it afterwards.
    . . .. . . I can't understand a word of what you're saying here. Please explain?

  14. #464
    Quote Originally Posted by flipation View Post

    The pinups I made are in realms of fantasy and I not expect to find them in real world, I draw as a hobby because I love it, and I draw what gets me inspired and what I like. If I liked men I will draw men in speedo instead of women.
    Pin up artisit likes to make idealized visions of women because we are drawing what we like and are making fantasy, of course we know that reality is another thing far from or illustrations. So don't try at home become a pinup, I like them on the paper and the cover of books and magazines just for the pleasure of my eyes, not to find them on the real world.

    That's true, I get what you're saying. It's important for people who draw images from their own personal fantasies to recognize that it is far different from reality. . . unfortunately, a lot of people don't and I obviously couldn't tell if you were one of those people or not.

  15. #465
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: The Kingdom of Prester John
    Beleg is pointing out that the post you took him to task for earlier wasn't meant to be serious.

    Incidentally, you can use the "multi" button beside "quote" to quote multiple messages in one reply. It was added the last time the forum software was upgraded.

  16. #466
    *sigh*. . .. ... . what does "took him to task for" mean??

    Are you saying what he said before wasn't meant to be serious? If that's true, he should have said so. Meaning is not as readily apparent through written words is it can be in person.

  17. #467
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: The Kingdom of Prester John
    The post you responded to with the following words:
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Taffer View Post
    Women with muscles may not be sexy to YOU, Beleg. . but you're not the only person on this planet and there is not any ONE standard of sexiness out there.
    was sarcastic, yes. It was not an indication of his real views on the subject.
    Last edited by Gestalt; 26th Nov 2006 at 23:24.

  18. #468
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: Go is to the fountain.
    Quote Originally Posted by flipation View Post
    No matter the kind of craft you do somebody will love and somebody will hate, but I think an upper state of the art comes when it makes people think and discuss the matters of their social and moral status. In this case I got amazed of the sex wars I have started.
    I'm not joking when I say that my greatest aspiration as an artist would be to have one of my works destroyed by its own provocation.

  19. #469
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2006
    Location: Madrid
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortal Monkey View Post
    I'm not joking when I say that my greatest aspiration as an artist would be to have one of my works destroyed by its own provocation.
    Draw Mahoma and you will get it. But maybe you will be burned with your work...

  20. #470
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: Netherlands
    And for those not in the know, Mahoma is apparently Mohammed peace be upon him.

  21. #471
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortal Monkey View Post
    I'm not joking when I say that my greatest aspiration as an artist would be to have one of my works destroyed by its own provocation.
    Welcome to the art world.

  22. #472
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Taffer
    Are you saying what he said before wasn't meant to be serious? If that's true, he should have said so. Meaning is not as readily apparent through written words is [as?] it can be in person.
    That's why I fear for my language skills. In fact we both had similar opinions and I just wanted to parody the "other side" (if there actually is one). So...begging your pardon, Miss.

    Und der Gestalt danke ich natürlich auch.

  23. #473
    No problem. Language barriers suck sometimes. . .but smilies do help a lot!

  24. #474
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Oh well, it's nearly the same in German, too. If there wasn't the "", I'd be rather doomed. OK, maybe not, but...

  25. #475
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2004
    Location: namedrocalypse
    Garrett takes a momentary break from thieving to play a few bars...

    Garrett plays a mean harmonica

    Ideas and pic inspired/borrowed/etc. from Qui-Gon Plays a Mean Harmonica.

    I'm aware the pic is terrible, it's just to put the idea out there.
    Last edited by metal dawn; 3rd Dec 2006 at 22:50.

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