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Thread: Please ask your basic (newbie) questions in here.

  1. #2076
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012

    totally lost

    im big into games and especially thief and everything i can play on steam... but installing this editor is confusing and almost cryptic to me... is there a very detailed explanation.. like detail by detail kinda thing just to get this working? and i was wondering.. if the game is launched through the steam program does it make a difference... if you don't know what steam is it is a program that downloads, installs, launches and sells games like counterstrike and half-life.. they actually have a TON of games.. including thief since 2007... but um please give me a hand! i would appreciate any help i can get!

    also is there a thread that i can download people's thief III maps that they built? i have seen some AWESOME STUFF and i'm so syked about actually getting to build some super huge and VERY difficult stuff.. i just got through beating thief III on expert =).. quite challenging !

    and also if someone could explain to me all of the names of the editor programs and what exactly they all do.. that would be cool.. and which one is best for making stuff for thief III... but i think thief III editor is the only one for thief III so that should be simple... but i want to know what the other programs are.. because i have alot of games and also all of the thiefs so i could edit them too... but if no one wants to answer that its fine.. my main questions are ABOVE^^^ thanks guys for your possible future help with this lost editing noob...
    Last edited by manfoolz; 10th Jul 2012 at 07:03.

  2. #2077
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I'm pretty sure that T3Ed involes so much editing single files and having multiple directories that Steam itself will be the largest barrier. Otherwise, create a duplicate of a vanilla TDS directory, copy T3Ed into it (download links in this forum, see stickies), get the T3Ed patcher made by snobel (one of the recent threads in this forum) and use it. Then T3Ed should run and you can use either Komag's or d'Spair's tutorial (Googel should help you finding them, I'm too lazy right now ) and start using T3Ed. Good luck, though.

  3. #2078
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Back when I needed the editor for testing purposes I was quite impressed by Komag's tutorial. Obviously a lot of effort went into it, and it's even somewhat entertaining to follow. I only needed parts I+II, but that far it was painless.

    When I bought the Steam version for testing I did a systematic comparison to my original European retail version. As you can see below, the Steam version is quite similar to the original, so there shouldn't be any problems for editor use.

    The changed content files are actually older in the Steam version, so it's probably the American retail version with a little steam added, mainly in the form of a T3.exe with new exciting DRM.
    As you can see almost all the changes are translation updates, so Steam's European customers are getting a slightly suboptimal experience... I guess this could be fixed by the next Sneaky Upgrade installer. We'll see what time allows.

    Files only in the retail version:

    • Uninstall Thief - Deadly Shadows.lnk
    • Content/T3/VideoTextures/copyright_engl_euro_30.bik
    • Content/T3/VideoTextures/copyright_engl_fren_30.bik

    Files only in the steam version:

    • installscript.vdf
    • System/testapp.exe
    • System/testapp.exe
    • System/runme.dat
    • System/runme.exe

    Changed files:

    • readme.rtf
    • System/t3.exe
      The Steam version is very similar to the one that comes with the editor, but has some self-extracting stuff tagged on
    • System/DEFAULT.INI
      Retail: AggLanguage=EURO, Steam: AggLanguage=NONE
    • Content/T3/Sounds/SchemaMetafile_Memory.csc
      Retail: An empty file, Steam: Contains a single space
    • Content/T3/Sounds/SchemaMetafile_HardDrive.csc
      Retail: "la campana", Steam: "il campana"
    • Content/T3/Books/English/String_Tags/UI.sch
      Lots of changes in the French and German names for keyboard keys
    • Content/T3/Books/English/String_Tags/Screens.sch
      Retail: Configuration, Steam: Périphériques
    • Content/T3/Books/English/String_Tags/Inventory.sch
      Retail: "Grenade éblouissante", Steam: "Grenade éblouiss."
    • Content/T3/Books/English/MovieSubtitles/keeper_prophesies.sch
      Retail: "...la ripetizione", Steam: "[...la ripetizione"
    • Content/T3/Books/English/MovieSubtitles/first_contact.sch
      Placement(?) of one English and one German subtitle(?) changed

  4. #2079
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2012

    thanks

    well it looks like alot to handle, but i know if i follow komag's tutorial i should be able do this correctly! thanks alot guys! and i hope to be editing soon... if i have any questions or small detail questions that i cant find answered in komag's or the search button.. i will post here.. thanks again!

    if anyone else has any input that would be great but i think they about covered it =)

  5. #2080
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Stay small, basic and simple with the first things you try out, lest you get burried in unclean stuff and total chaos.

  6. #2081
    Well, T3ed wasn't meant to be released to the public, so it isn't exactly friendly. While it uses pretty nice UnrealEd interface, it's much harder to configure and to wrap up when you're packaging your mission. If you want to make some custom stuff, like models and textures/materials, it's real pain in the ass to find the proper tools make them work. But once you do it, your workflow isn't that complicated.

  7. #2082
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Has anyone of you ever succeeded in including a custom briefing voiceover file? I have one, plus a fitting schema file, and it's filled in in both Entry's and first map's EnterMissionInfo --> EnterMissionInfoBriefingVoiceOverSchemaName. And while this works for the debriefing, it won't work for the briefing. The debriefing has the same configuration but of course only for the ExitMissionInfo actor in the first map. Here the voice over tag isn't even saved in the GameSys archetype (remember: you create extra GameSys archetypes for your mission info actors) but just in the current instance, a mistake I thought responsible but which has turned out to be not related to my briefing issue.

    Both sound files and schemas are with the other briefing files, that is CONTENT\T3\Sounds\schemas\garrett\...

    But while the debriefing voice over plays after finishing the mission, the briefing doesn't play when entering the briefing screen. I plan to have a briefing video anyway, but I thought it must work anyhow.

    Edit: Tested both files in the schema browser to make sure the schemas are OK, and they worked there. Is there a special issue with the Inn map that I'm missing?
    Last edited by Beleg Cúthalion; 16th Jul 2012 at 18:42.

  8. #2083
    IronEagle
    Guest
    Hi all
    has anyone tried to put all the O Tds maps in a single map?
    The other night I copied another map that I had done. and pasted it into my actual. I can no longer go into game mode.
    map exceeds 40 mb. maybe there's a limit?
    that problem can be?
    I recreated all the conversation. fixed the trigger script.




    P:S:
    i'm really tired for this , then definitely step in UDK. .., does nothing if Garrett will have new weapons ..
    like a sniper gun. ? or a MiniGun?


  9. #2084
    Quote Originally Posted by IronEagle View Post
    Hi all
    has anyone tried to put all the O Tds maps in a single map?
    The other night I copied another map that I had done. and pasted it into my actual. I can no longer go into game mode.
    map exceeds 40 mb. maybe there's a limit?
    that problem can be?
    I recreated all the conversation. fixed the trigger script.

    P:S:
    i'm really tired for this , then definitely step in UDK. .., does nothing if Garrett will have new weapons ..
    like a sniper gun. ? or a MiniGun?


    You probably reached vertex count limit set in your user.ini file. This is a safety measure, game has property/entity limit which is hard-coded and cannot be changed. After that you won't be able to open your map in the editor. But if you raise the vertex limit in user.ini e.g. by half, you should be on the safe side for now.

    Switching to UDK won't give you much: all the stealth game mechanics will have to be done from scratch, all the characters, voices, static meshes and such.
    Last edited by Judith; 27th Jul 2012 at 03:25.

  10. #2085
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Have a look at my Crash-o-Meter. If the map crashes at the end of the loading cycle (usually when your gamma settings are applied to the loading screen, e.g. it gets brighter or darker), it's about exceeded vertex limits. Mine are for instance 4x to 6x the original ones (just use a calculator to double or tripple them).

  11. #2086
    By the way, it would be awesome to have a tool for analyzing entity count in your .unr map. Or maybe there is such command in the editor and I just missed it?

  12. #2087
    IronEagle
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    You probably reached vertex count limit set in your user.ini file. This is a safety measure, game has property/entity limit which is hard-coded and cannot be changed. After that you won't be able to open your map in the editor. But if you raise the vertex limit in user.ini e.g. by half, you should be on the safe side for now.

    Switching to UDK won't give you much: all the stealth game mechanics will have to be done from scratch, all the characters, voices, static meshes and such.
    yea, I know, of course, I'm not going to change anything. we will have a garrett with a minigun and a rocket launcher. I do not think is a problem. don't worry I'm kidding ...
    c'mon? time ago I used the CryEngine, not bad. has a wonderful "tool to build the terrain" (what we would also go with a message more in that petition)

    i recommend to everyone a look to that Engine
    very soft...


    is ok
    Last edited by IronEagle; 27th Jul 2012 at 12:15.

  13. #2088
    IronEagle
    Guest
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    Have a look at my Crash-o-Meter. If the map crashes at the end of the loading cycle (usually when your gamma settings are applied to the loading screen, e.g. it gets brighter or darker), it's about exceeded vertex limits. Mine are for instance 4x to 6x the original ones (just use a calculator to double or tripple them).
    Good

  14. #2089
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Judith pointed me to an issue in my map that has buggered me for long: Despite all scripts being set up according to the tutorial, torches of torch-bearing guards aren't extinguished when the AI is knocked out or shot with an water arrow. The scripts on the end of the torch and AI are the correct ones and the links fit with their respective link names.



    All scripts themselves should be untouched and look like they should be working. It's as if the applied stimulus doesn't work. Sometimes even shooting the dropped torches manually doesn't work, the light seems to be extinguished but the flame emitter stays. I cannot remember changing anything abut those either.

  15. #2090
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    OK, next try: As gnartsch pointed out, the hand drawn map in my FM is covered in a blue fog unlike the original maps which appear to have a light placed on them. Since I'm currently on a "business trip" (sort of), I cannot check things myself and even then I'd have no idea where to look for it. Does anyone who used a custom map successfully know what has to be changed in order to avoid the blue olverlay?

  16. #2091
    The texture with blueish overlay is HUDglow_D.dds, maybe it could just be deleted?

  17. #2092
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Whidbey Island, WA
    Argh someone help me out here plz... how do I set up an ambient sound again? Specifically, I need to put a running turbine sound on, well a turbine.

  18. #2093
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Check the Fleshworks Wiki. Plus, what I did was adding several custom ambient markers in the GameSys with one certain sound already installed (like AmbientSoundMarker_RattleNoise, AmbientSoundMarker_Crickets etc.). This saved me from loading the schema browser every now and then and browsing the huge library without knowing where exactly the sound was for which I was looking.

  19. #2094
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2012
    I'm rarely asking questions as long as I prefer not to bother people until I'm truly stuck and really can't find any info what to do. Well nearly half of year have passed since my first question here... time for a new question

    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    ...Switching to UDK won't give you much: all the stealth game mechanics will have to be done from scratch, all the characters, voices, static meshes and such.
    If it looks fine to me personally to make from scratch all "characters, voices, static meshes and such (textures)" - is there anyone who can describe the difficulty of adding "stealth game mechanics" to Unreal 3.5 Engine version? I have already checked how good or bad it works with meshes and texture budgets - and it's just great. But all those stealth mechanics...

  20. #2095
    It's tremendous amount of work (I mean level assets only) and cannot be done by one person in a reasonable amount of time (e.g a year), unless it's a paid job of course. As for the stealth I have no idea: haven't seen any light-based stealth game for Unreal Engine 3 yet (Dishonored uses visibility-based AFAIK).

  21. #2096
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Ros View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    ...Switching to UDK won't give you much: all the stealth game mechanics will have to be done from scratch, all the characters, voices, static meshes and such.
    If it looks fine to me personally to make from scratch all "characters, voices, static meshes and such (textures)" - is there anyone who can describe the difficulty of adding "stealth game mechanics" to Unreal 3.5 Engine version? I have already checked how good or bad it works with meshes and texture budgets - and it's just great. But all those stealth mechanics...
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    It's tremendous amount of work (I mean level assets only) and cannot be done by one person in a reasonable amount of time (e.g a year), unless it's a paid job of course. As for the stealth I have no idea: haven't seen any light-based stealth game for Unreal Engine 3 yet (Dishonored uses visibility-based AFAIK).
    Yes of course to model and texture whole game is absolutely impossible for one single person. But to make 1 single level, show up the quality of how it came out is kinda hard job but real... and well, I think you can imagine what happens next. There's a real lots of qualified modders, whom will become interested and would love to join the project - at least I hope so But that could happen ONLY if you'll make something real spectacular.

    Anyway until Eidos guys allow to remake Thief I & II I wouldn't even begin doin' anything...

  22. #2097
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    The Thief modding supply is currently larger than the demand I fear. Thief 2 got a huge boost recently with an out-of-the-blue fan-made patch which breaks almost all existing limits. The Dark Mod has a new version out and both of them have much better publicity than T3Ed, which exists nevertheless (with us stubborn followers). So sure, you might make a good impression with "something real spectacular", but it's unfortunately not like people are waiting for it. Plus, with Thief IV coming at some point, there might even be another level editor. Good luck, though, I just don't want you to be disappointed afterwards.

    By the way, snobel, where's our (next) T3Ed 1.19?

  23. #2098
    New Member
    Registered: Jun 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    ...Thief 2 got a huge boost recently with an out-of-the-blue fan-made patch which breaks almost all existing limits...
    Just curious. What are u talkin' about in particular? Minimalist project? Sneaky update? I presume u are talkin' about something else...

    Is it this? http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=140085
    If so than there's nothing yet done-improved within Thief II playing experience. It's only a possibility to make something, or... I don't know... maybe I missed something very important? I don't mind to be wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    The Thief modding supply is currently larger than the demand I fear...
    Well that's okey as long as there's always not enough of supply Even if you take Elder Scrolls & Fallout, where the modding supply is a lot more incomparably alive, there's still a lot of locked features and limits of what a modder can do. Yes of course I understand that the difference counts and counts real critically But... as for me personally it's okey that Thief modding isn't as supported (not supported at all these days) as it might be.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    ...The Dark Mod has a new version out and both of them have much better publicity than T3Ed, which exists nevertheless (with us stubborn followers)...
    For me personally Dark Mod is simply pointless as long as Doom 3 engine itself is outdated. It's my own personal opinion and anyone can simply skip it... so... nothing personal

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    ...Thief IV coming at some point, there might even be another level editor...
    With all those Eidos perturbations... I would say there's nothing to wait and expect until... hmm... 2014-2015. Maybe the Q4 of 2013, but surely not earlier. The year or more of expectations is quite a long period, so there's a loooOOOooot of time to make something without dreaming about Thief 4 Editor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    ...you might make a good impression with "something real spectacular"...
    Well my story is a little bit simpler. If it's interesting of course. I've been modding Stalker for nearly 3 years and got real tired of that game. And last year I'm... hmm... "searching" for a game or game universe to move on. Simultaneously I'm feeling around my older impressions - Half-Life (Source engine), Thief (Dark engine or too cutted Unreal 2 engine) and some other games. I didn't decide yet what to do and where to move on. The only thing I can say that my pro-knowledge is good enough to... hmm... for example model in next-gen manner any of Thief I or II level by myself alone. But where exactly I will invest my knowledge... I don't know. Don't know. I'm very interested in trying to remake Thief I & II in a modern way on a modern engine. But as long as Thief I & II storyline and characters are protected by Intellectual Property laws... well, I've send a request to Eidos guys to allow a remake. Let's see what they'll say...
    Last edited by Alex Ros; 27th Oct 2012 at 06:22.

  24. #2099
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    By the way, snobel, where's our (next) T3Ed 1.19?
    It may get to 1.1.9 eventually. Close enough?
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  25. #2100
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I think that counts, too.

    @ Alex Ros: As I said I'm merely interested in you not wasting time with things that no one will appreciate. Of course as a humble modder on the fringes of Thief modding in general I cannot give any technical advise etc., I just see the community for some years now and usually consider myself as being merely self-motivated since the community doesn't exactly cherish T3 fan missions. Plus, I'm always opting for combining forces instead of having people developing things on their own, with combinations profiting from all inventions coming only in the second generation (e.g. we had three and a half different T3-ready FM loaders over the last years). T3Ed surely can be modded in certain ways and currently snobel is probably the guy most deep into investigating things, hence my snide remark in the last post.

    Heck, in fact we have inventions at different stages of development that were never released to the public, be it relatively easy editor-contained stuff like cubemaps and reflections (provided by Judith and AFAIK only used in one of his released missions so far), rope arrows (two missions with still crude stages of development), a workaround for swimmable water or new AIs etc.; or be it stuff that actually touches T3Ed's core like snobel having figured out a way to boost the property storage count limit (IMHO the only painful limit, being composed of all the objects in a map and their properties if they differ from the GameSys) or his successful attempts to making T3Ed run on modern machines without nasty registry workarounds in the first place. Dark 1.19 actually gives me the impression that there's always something possible even if everyone thought otherwise. And, last comment for today, I really think much can be done with T3Ed, even if it's also eight years old by now. So, I'm not trying to give precocious advice, just arguing from my tiny provincial position.

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