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Thread: Please ask your basic (newbie) questions in here.

  1. #2101
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2010
    Hi,

    it is possible changing the original maps of the game? I would like to make a spanish translation, and I need translate the objectives and the conversations ingame (the other texts are in 'book' section). I am using the 'conversation editor', but ingame texts remains in english.

    Maybe I'm doing something wrong but, ¿what?


    Thanks in advance.

  2. #2102
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Hi, I remember having found a set of files already translated into Spanish. I think you know these...? Basically everything you can read in the game is contained in schema files (*.sch). There are the basic readables which you find in books\English\... and some technical stuff (user interface, descriptions on hand-drawn maps, object names etc.) in the string_tags subfolder. Mission objectives and everything that is spoken (aside from movie subtitles which can be found in string_tags as well) is contained in the folder Sounds\schemas\... but you may not access all of them when they're baked into the large csc archive files. I'm not even sure if all of these are unpacked in the editor release and if they can be edited using T3Ed's schema editor.

    Glossary: A schema here is basically a text file accompanying a sound file in which all technical information about the sound file (name, volume, looping style, but also text/subtitle). Both must be present since the game/editor uses the schema file to play the sound in a proper way.

  3. #2103
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    The Thief modding supply is currently larger than the demand I fear. Thief 2 got a huge boost recently with an out-of-the-blue fan-made patch which breaks almost all existing limits. The Dark Mod has a new version out and both of them have much better publicity than T3Ed, which exists nevertheless (with us stubborn followers). So sure, you might make a good impression with "something real spectacular", but it's unfortunately not like people are waiting for it. Plus, with Thief IV coming at some point, there might even be another level editor. Good luck, though, I just don't want you to be disappointed afterwards.

    By the way, snobel, where's our (next) T3Ed 1.19?
    That reminds me we're in a kind of a limbo here, lack of people, technology that is a bit against us: it's hard as it is to create a stunning environment, and to make it playable as well. Lack of lightmapping and restrictions on dynamic lightning make it difficult to create organic looking maps and PSC limit makes it hard to even prototype a map: you know, make it all out of boxes and BSP to test the gameplay and then to fill it with SMs and props? The usual workflow. Ideally you should have everything done in max or on paper and you need separate maps for any experiments and problem solving, in order not to use any additional properties. That's why I usually have to put projects on hold, even if I have something visually gorgeous and pleasing in terms of gameplay in mind. When I realise I'll need a year or two to make it work...

  4. #2104
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    Hi, I remember having found a set of files already translated into Spanish. I think you know these...? Basically everything you can read in the game is contained in schema files (*.sch). There are the basic readables which you find in books\English\... and some technical stuff (user interface, descriptions on hand-drawn maps, object names etc.) in the string_tags subfolder. Mission objectives and everything that is spoken (aside from movie subtitles which can be found in string_tags as well) is contained in the folder Sounds\schemas\... but you may not access all of them when they're baked into the large csc archive files. I'm not even sure if all of these are unpacked in the editor release and if they can be edited using T3Ed's schema editor.

    Glossary: A schema here is basically a text file accompanying a sound file in which all technical information about the sound file (name, volume, looping style, but also text/subtitle). Both must be present since the game/editor uses the schema file to play the sound in a proper way.

    Thanks for your reply.

    Problem is, apparently the game doesn't use the contents of 'sounds\schemas' subfolder if the css files are present, so the translation in the 'sounds\schemas' files doesn't appear ingame. Only the translation in the sch files from books\english works fine. For this reason I'm trying to modify the maps.
    The changes are stored correctly in the unr files, but when I use the "export map to game" option, and the editor builds the gmp files, nothing changes in-game. In fact, even deleting the ibt files, the game works (a slower loading, maybe?) but the changes using the conversation editor are not present in the game, only in the unr file if I open it with the editor again.

    Thanks anyway.

  5. #2105
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Quote Originally Posted by darkpadawan View Post
    Problem is, apparently the game doesn't use the contents of 'sounds\schemas' subfolder if the css files are present, so the translation in the 'sounds\schemas' files doesn't appear ingame.
    As I recall, according to some old threads here, it is possible to recreate the csc files using the compile_schemas.pl script. But because lip sync data was not included with the editor you're going to lose that.

    Hopefully you're using the official but originally unused Spanish locale, i.e. lang_spanish tags?
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  6. #2106
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Actually this reminds me that the DXIW SoundDrone was supposed to be shipped with an "add" function in a never-released future version. How difficult would it be to actually hack the csc archives, leaving the lip sync data untouched?

    The archives are, as you found out, the reason why changing the maps doesn't work. I cannot think of any work-around unfortunately.

    @Judith: When we leave it at that stage we're not smarter than T3Edders five years ago. I think the beauty of a mission is not simply about great custom stuff, so sticking to maps à la TDS (just without loading zones if we're talking about the same size), we're really fine. And there's still a lot of new stuff we can do (IF my FM is ready and the combined TDS levels are done, I'll try to mess with patrols, like a changing of the guard... there's lots of small but smart stuff one can still do without raping T3Ed).

  7. #2107
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: Moscow, Russia

    Thief 3 Sound Add On

    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    As I recall, according to some old threads here, it is possible to recreate the csc files using the compile_schemas.pl script...
    As far as I remember, also it could be done with a little program called "Thief 3 Sound Add On". It's here - http://darkfate.ru/view/details/file...ors/t3ed/tools

    ABOUT:
    Scott Haag developed this program to make custom conversations work. Just extract to CONTENT\T3\Sounds, run Thief3SoundAddOn.exe, delete or cut & paste SchemaMetafile_HardDrive.csc, then rename SchemaMetafile_HardDrive_new.csc to SchemaMetafile_HardDrive.csc.

  8. #2108
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    Anybody know if Scott Haag is still around, or can be contacted?
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  9. #2109
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    Hopefully you're using the official but originally unused Spanish locale, i.e. lang_spanish tags?
    Yes, but although I can translate the contents of "book" folder, unfortunately the problem with conversations and mission objectives remains,.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tiens View Post
    As far as I remember, also it could be done with a little program called "Thief 3 Sound Add On". It's here - http://darkfate.ru/view/details/file...ors/t3ed/tools

    ABOUT:
    Scott Haag developed this program to make custom conversations work. Just extract to CONTENT\T3\Sounds, run Thief3SoundAddOn.exe, delete or cut & paste SchemaMetafile_HardDrive.csc, then rename SchemaMetafile_HardDrive_new.csc to SchemaMetafile_HardDrive.csc.
    Ah, excellent, thanks. I'll try it.

  10. #2110
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I think this will not work because the SoundAddOn only hacks this HardDrive archive, which is the smallest of all and probably leaves the rest unaffected. There might be the issue that it has an overriding priority, so that you can add everything from the other files (which would be a lot) and the game uses the HardDrive archive instead of the others, but then I've never heard about that.

  11. #2111
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    All the schemas are in the harddrive file, so at least there was a chance. But I just did a few experiments, trying to add a changed original schema, with or without an accompanying sound file. The schema file was found, but not included, unfortunately.
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  12. #2112
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Afternoon

    Do you guys have a texture pack or wiki for fan made textures for t3..?

    ta.

  13. #2113
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    There's John P's texture pack. If it's for TDM use then you should ask John P's permission, of course. You can extract the textures without installing, using 7-Zip. (There's an installer within the installer which has to be extracted first.)
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  14. #2114
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Clearing still has a couple of textures hosted. Other than that stuff, nothing major has been released in a T3 context.

  15. #2115
    bikerdude
    Guest
    Thanks guys :-)

  16. #2116
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by snobel View Post
    There's John P's texture pack. If it's for TDM use then you should ask John P's permission, of course. You can extract the textures without installing, using 7-Zip. (There's an installer within the installer which has to be extracted first.)
    I'm pretty sure John granted us permission to use his T3 textures a long time ago, as long as we credit him.

  17. #2117
    Is it possible to make swimming in water possible, or has that failed completely? I recall someone possibly having done it, but I can't remember.

  18. #2118
    It really doesn't work too well and it requires heavy scripting, the overall effect isn't worth it IMO.

  19. #2119
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: UED2
    Really noob question, for someone coming with only unreal mapping experience (NOT UDK), how is the T3 variant different?

  20. #2120
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    There are people here who can give you a better answer than me, but for a start: Aside from game-specific assets like objects, textures, AIs (patrol paths?), maybe the sound propagation thingy, T3Ed has a custom renderer with realtime per-pixel lighting and shadow-casting. Some vanilla UnrealEd stuff must be missing like anti portals (?) and some matinée assets, but since I only know T3Ed, I cannot really miss them.

  21. #2121
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Russia
    A little offtopic (may dear moderators forgive me): Dear T3 FM authors, please visit the topic about the Dishonored Map Editor and vote whatever you want. It's important for me to know your opinion. Thanks in advance .

  22. #2122
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2011
    Location: Russia, Rostov-upon-Don
    Now I'm working at the properties' count. What I've had (my DUMPINTERNALPROPINFO):
    Code:
       Total Number of Properties Stored: 52684                                                                       [  70002] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 257) 
             Used But Freed: 1531                                                                                           [  70003] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 261) 
             Property                                      Tag : 8898                                                       [  70003] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                 Touching : 8089                                                       [  70022] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                               StaticMesh : 7615                                                       [  70033] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                               ObjectMesh : 7090                                                       [  70045] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                    Group : 2885                                                       [  70143] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                              CastShadows : 2650                                                       [  70149] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                               Instigator : 2287                                                       [  70157] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                  bHidden : 1875                                                       [  70167] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                DrawScale : 860                                                        [  70191] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271)
    I deleted all CastShadows properties (i will return them, of course), few areas (they are pretty useless for missions, but i didn't want to remove them), some objects and almost all groups (my mission based on Shalebridge Cradle, these groups were made by developers, and they make ~2-3k properties without a profit). There were left about 42k properties. Game can be saved already, but I still have to add shadows and few more AIs. I've tried to remove Tag property from all objects.
    I've selected all actors (some haven't selected because my group is hidden, so there are some Tags left), went to Properties; added Event>Tag to them and removed (so i have all selected actors without Tag property). And what i have now:

    Code:
     Total Number of Properties Stored: 34868                                                                       [  61979] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 257) 
             Used But Freed: 1357                                                                                           [  61979] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 261) 
             Property                                 Touching : 7008                                                       [  61979] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                               StaticMesh : 6671                                                       [  61987] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                               ObjectMesh : 6198                                                       [  61998] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                               Instigator : 2039                                                       [  62096] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                  bHidden : 1693                                                       [  62104] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                      Tag : 895                                                        [  62123] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271) 
             Property                                DrawScale : 744                                                        [  62126] (.\PropSysInternals.cpp : 271)
    And I like it. I can return Morgue back )

    Well, why I'm writing all this: Does anybody know, is property Event>Tag necessary? I didn't find something about it on TTLG. Google also doesn't say much, I found this: http://wiki.beyondunreal.com/Legacy:Event. But scripts work fine in game mode, AI kept patroling, links aren't broken. Does anybody tried that too? Can be some other problems here?
    And btw, what is "Touching"?

  23. #2123
    Sneaky Upgrader
    Registered: May 2007
    That's quite a difference - very interesting!
    Widescreen and tweaks patches: The Sneaky Upgrade for Thief 3, the Visible Upgrade for Deus Ex 2

  24. #2124
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I wouldn't dare messing with these apparently core-related things, but that's simply because I'm a noob. But does deleting properties of every single actor reduce the PSC in the first place? And if yes, is everything moved to "used but freed"?

    BTW, this might be moved to the "Quirks etc." thread where we already talked about this issue.

  25. #2125
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2011
    Location: Russia, Rostov-upon-Don
    Quote Originally Posted by Beleg Cúthalion View Post
    But does deleting properties of every single actor reduce the PSC in the first place? And if yes, is everything moved to "used but freed"?
    Answered about deleting properties in "Quirks etc." ) http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...74#post1998974

    I wouldn't dare messing with these apparently core-related things, but that's simply because I'm a noob.
    I'm afraid to do that too. Maybe it's atavism, but who knows?
    Now it works without tags, scripts have no problems, books can be read, items frobbed, etc. It's also goes fine when I launch with T3Main.exe. I will wait a little more, maybe somebody can tell that it's true Otherwise i will pack mission and test on few computers. If all of them will show good result, i can think, that Tags are atavism.
    And i still don't know what "Touching" is, keep looking Probably i will should to work with NavMeshes also.
    As Tiens said, big maps do not forgive mistakes.
    But it's a good experience anyway.

    BTW, this might be moved to the "Quirks etc." thread where we already talked about this issue.
    I were thinking about it, but as my question is about one specific property (Tag), everything else just for info why i make it, i decided to message here. Maybe I'm wrong )

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