Edit 2: Version 2 of the Enhancement Pack can be found in this thread.
Edit 2: Everything in this first post is hopelessly out-of-date.
----
Edit: The first official version of the EP was released in this thread.
(Some ancient versions of the files for this can be found here: http://www.thiefmissions.com/models/)
I've been playing some FMs lately (The Lord Ashton Series, to be precise), and I noticed how bad some of the original Thief objects are. Specifically, objects that have been around since Thief 1 and were low-poly and low-resolution-textures back then.
So, I've been thinking of making a 'Thief Enhancement Pack' with higher quality replacements for them.
Objects I've done so far:
- Old tables (26 -> 26 polys. 100%)
- Destroyed wooden table (34 -> 32 polys. 94%)
- Big wooden table (38 -> 38 polys. 100%)
- Two wooden chairs (42 -> 42 polys. 100%)
- Destroyed wooden chair (65 -> 58 polys. 89%)
- Old wooden stool (18 -> 30 polys. 167%)
- Cabinets (Textures only. Model unchanged. 100%)
- Wooden Pail (12 -> 18 polys. 150%)
- Wooden crates (6 -> 83 polys. 1383%)
- Open crates (14 -> 103 polys. 736%)
- Crate lids (6 -> 22 polys. 367%)
- Crate full of hammers. (21 -> 103 polys. 490%)
- Pew bench (16 -> 16 polys. 100%)
- Destroyed pew bench (16 -> 19 polys. 119%)
- Boardup (6 -> 6 polys. 100%)
- Barrels (6 types) (50 -> 82 polys. 164%)
- Explosive Barrel (14 -> 50 polys. 357%)
- Small closed rotten barrel (14 -> 50 polys. 357%)
- Rotten broken barrel (62 -> 91 polys. 147%)
- Barrel hoop (24 -> 48 polys. 200%)
- Fancy blue bed (50 -> 172 polys. 344.00%)
[Note: barrel models have been subtly resized so that they will no longer become nonphysical when 'floor_object' is used on them. This will not affect pre-existing missions with badly placed barrels, however; but FM authors who are placing barrels in their missions with this enhancement pack installed shouldn't run into the problem.]- Plain old wooden door (30 -> 51 polys. 170%)
- Reinforced old wooden door (24 -> 114 polys. 475%)
- Cloister gate (29 -> 159 polys. 548%) (uses one of Vigil's excellent metal textures - need to get permission or use another)
- Victorian Door 01 (24 -> 493 polys. 2054%)
- Victorian Door 02 (24 -> 803 polys. 3346%)
- Victorian Door 03 (24 -> 128 polys. 533%)
- Victorian Door 04 (24 -> 298 polys. 1242%)
- Victorian Door 05 (24 -> 260 polys. 1083%)
- Brass candlestick (28 -> 134 polys. 479%) (Wax texture stolen from some random web image.)
- Metal/Gold candlestick (28 -> 150 polys. 536%) (Wax texture stolen from some random web image.)
- Candle holder (18 -> 76 polys. 422%)
- Gold vases 1 and 2 (36 -> 81 polys. 225%)
- Gold vases 3 and 4 (25 -> 78 polys. 225%)
- Non-valuable vase (44 -> 82 polys. 168%)
- Gold / Purple goblets (36 -> 87 polys. 242%)
- Gold nugget (55 -> 180 polys. 327%)
- Silver nugget (55 -> 192 polys. 349%)
- Purse (56 -> 97 polys. 173%)
- Lost City Jars 1 and 2 (18 -> 91 polys. 506%)
- Lost City Jar 3 (18 -> 33 polys. 183%)
- Coin stacks (10 -> 14 polys. 140%) (gold/silver/copper - side textures need improvement)
- Gemstone (12 -> 48 polys. 400%) ('Sodalite' tex stolen from unknown source. I should make a better one of my own.)
- Apple (15 -> 144 polys. 960%) (Did I overdo it a little...?)
- Cheese (6 -> 11 polys. 183%) (Texture is a little fine. Hard to see unless you look at it up close.)
- Cucumber (16 -> 54 polys. 338%)
- Carrots (26 -> 206 polys. 792%) (These are maybe a little high-poly. Green part is just some random veg tex)
- Porcelain Plate (10 -> 66 polys. 660%)
- Gold Plate (10 -> 80 polys. 800%)
- Metal plate (10 -> 50 polys. 500%)
- Wine (35 -> 171 polys. 489%) (black bottle, fine wine and tall wine bottle)
- Healing Potion (41 -> 152 polys. 371%)
- Breath Potion (24 -> 152 polys. 633%)
- Speed Potion (25 -> 134 polys. 536%) (Did I overdo these a little, too...?)
- Deck of cards (5 -> 6 polys. 120%)
- Dark grey book (6 -> 26 polys. 433%)
- Keeper book (6 -> 26 polys. 433%)
- Wooden spoon (21 -> 38 polys. 181%)
- Wooden rolling pin (17 -> 89 polys. 524%)
- Wooden cutting board (6 -> 10 polys. 167%)
- Bowls; wooden, metal, ornamental, collection plate. (25 -> 50 polys. 200%)
- Iron and wooden goblets (25 ->58 polys. 232.00%)
- Skeleton bones (Textures only. Model unchanged. 100%)
- Torches (bugfix) (Slight modification only. 100%)
- Sword (44 -> 227 polys. 516%)
- Jewelled sword (14 -> 236 polys. 1686%)
- Jewelled dagger (14 -> 260 polys. 1857%)
- Sword arm (We need new arm models. The original ones are buggy.)
- Hammer (long & short) (19 -> 147 polys. 774%)
- Broken hammer head (14 -> 137 polys. 979%)
- Broken hammer shaft (6 -> 42 polys. 700%)
- Fixed the hole in the SheriffsNoKO's head.
- Improved rope and vine meshes (that vine mesh will cause untold problems because it really needs the RenderAlpha property set. Maybe I'll make an alternate version...)
= Other Peoples' work =- Footlocker (Vigil)
- Sea Chest (Vigil)
- Lamps (Vigil)
- Barrels (Vigil)
- Red book (Vigil) (I had to resize the model a bit)
- Switches, buttons, and levers (Eshaktaar)
- Turbines (R Soul) (Textures need work)
- Kitchen containers (G'len) (Textures need work)
- Metal bucket (G'len) (Texture needs work)
- Potions (G'len) (To use these or mine...?)
- Rings (G'len) (Textures need work?)
- Card Table (DarkDragon)
- Roulette Wheel (R Soul / Nameless Voice / Lemog Textures)
- Red & Orange warehouse doors (R Soul)
- Glass Chandelier (R Soul)
Last edited by Nameless Voice; 22nd Sep 2015 at 07:26. Reason: Updated the list
Could we have a chandelier that actually has flames on the candles? It really winds me up!
Otherwise it's any wooden furniture, particularly, Wood 4x8 (door), the Bigtable and Woodenchair, the bookcases and all the dressers.
Can't think of anything else off-hand. But I'm sure I will.
That's a good idee, you could make it as a patch, like Rebirth for the System Shock 2 mesh.
The food and the silver- and goldnuggets...
the sofas are bad, bafford sofa and the ram sofa, i redid one of this in the clocktower, the dresser (armorie) is really bad.
I've done the church-bell object. It has more sides, but it doesn't have joints to allow the pendulum to swing, but it looks better. I'll upload it soon.
You know about the pipes
What needs doing:
The SewerLight
A lot of the levers and buttons could be remade so that they don't use that annoying red texture (but we still need something that stands out).
The Gear objects need more than 8 sides.
The Turbines need a more circular look.
Statues.
Barrels need more sides.
AlarmLights need some work.
Glowing mushrooms (six sided mushrooms?)
gaslight & NiceTorch - more sides
GlassChandelier - more sides. I've sort of done that in All Torc.
CrumpledPaper - needs to look like crumpled paper
Pial & Bucket need more sides
All the food objects need a bit more detail.
Every Kitchen object needs more sides where circles are involved.
Every single Plate needs more sides.
WasteBaskGold - more sides.
Harps are meant to be curved.
Anything circular under VictorianTables
VicDresser - needs better texture.
VicArmoire - needs better texture.
The two Bed-Victorians
LC_Brazier & LC_BrazierUsed (more sides)
CoalFlatcar - coal needs a better shape.
Shovel - needs to look something that could be used as a shovel.
Mine, Gas mine & ExplosiveCharge - more sides needed.
a few levers use rgb for the handle, those should be changed to a texture as well.
Mmm, a nice easy to use candle. I followed your lovely candle making walkthrough, but still can’t get it to go out with water arrows, lol. But I’m slightly retarded, so its all good. As far as redoing original stuff, the beds all piss me off. Even the noble beds are friggen dinky!! And only one (or is it two? I think only one) stand up off the ground, and hiding things under (or part way under) the bed is so cliché and fun… but impossible for the most part. I also agree about the kitchen wear. The pots and pans are way, way too… err… not round. And those spice bags (the weird ones, not the loot sand bag ones) are the most goofy looking things in the game. And there should be an altar rotisserie chicken so it’s minus the stick. So it’s just a chicken. Mmmyesss. Then we could have Garrett scarfing entire CHICKENS in one bite as opposed to a mere deer leg. Mwaha! I swear, the way I play Garrett he should be obese…eating 5 deer legs and 7 chunks of cheese in one night can’t be good for the arteries.
Oh, and btw, I downloaded about a million custom objects from your web page. They’re totally 100% sexyful. *Cuddles in corner with giant pile of objects giggling maniacally* Hello my prettiess… heeee
SHTUP/Rebirth for Thief? Sign me in!
Btw, some loot objects (think of the golden jar/pot which is SO common) haven't changed since Thief 1; they should be improved.
So let's make a list of what's need to be done, a list of slav-- err, volunteers, and devide the work. I'll make a Mechanical Fan for sure (I've already made framed ones, now a free-standing cieling one ALA Thief 2 needs to be made, and one that actually rotates. Also, I can make anything non-organic quite well.
While I find improving Thief's objects a good idea, I'm a bit vary of a general Thief Upgrade Pack. Why? If the new objects show up in FMs where the author reskinned existing objects/meshes, the resulting mishmash will most likely look totally wrong (wrongly textured AIs/objects, resized furniture that doesn't fit, etc.). Basically, mission authors would lose some control over what their mission looks like, since players could have installed the upgrade pack.
I'd rather see it as an enhancement package for mission authors to use at their discretion.
That said, count me in for upgrading some of the objects.
Someone's going to be pretty damn busy.....
By the way, do doors work well when they're a complex object rather than a box with a texture and a handle?
As I said, we should make a list of objects/textures/AIs (do we want AIs?) to be replace, a list of modellers to replace them and a project leader to remind the modellers to do so.
Last edited by G'len; 1st Jun 2005 at 07:05.
Modeller and project leader of the Citadel Conversion Project.
In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming
Couldn't this be remedied by a slight alteration of DarkLoader? Just make an "Original T2 with New Models" category, and when an FM will be loaded, the updates will be moved to a backup folder. And if an FM author would want to include them in his/her FM, they'll have to be in the FM's ZIP archive.Originally Posted by Eshaktaar
EDIT: You could also try and insert them (by an installer, mayhap?) into the original CRFs, and thus they'll be overriden by any new model present in an FM.
Last edited by G'len; 1st Jun 2005 at 07:11.
Modeller and project leader of the Citadel Conversion Project.
In his house at R'lyeh dead Cthulhu waits dreaming
I agree, also some FMs have high Poly aerea with original (low poly) Objects. Maybe some fms will crash if there were high poly objects or have slowdowns...
I'm pretty sure, some of my old fms will do....
How would this be any different from DEDX2?
Well, besides it being worked on by a whole group of people.
DEDX is a package of valuable resources for FM makers.
This project aims at improving some of the old Thief 1&2 extra-low-poly objects with newer ones, and some of the old low-res textures with new ones. It should improve the game itself rather than add to it.
Ofcourse, DEDX and our project combined will be a very nice resource for FM makers
Oh, and in order to prevent excessive frame rates, we should aim to remedy more with high-res textures (which require less graphical resources) than with models, unless nesscery.
I've crowded 10000 object polys on-screen once and I didn't get a crash, not even a slowdown with a machine that's already well-dated by now. Anything more than that and I got a slow-down though, anyone else willing to experiment and reach for the limits?
What we already have:
- Better Bell (R Soul)
- Fixed Sheriff no KO Guard (R Soul)
- Improved Pipes (R Soul)
- Fixed Gas Arrow (R Soul)
- Improved Electric Light Textures, though many of their models still need replacement (R Soul)
- Fixed Hanging Electric Lantern, though this model might need re-doing (R Soul)
- Improved Plate (Nameless Voice)
- Improved Lost City Jars (Nameless Voice)
- Improved Coin Stacks (Nameless Voice)
- Improved Vases (Nameless Voice)
- Improved Golden Goblet, though not 100% loyal to the original (Nameless Voice)
- Improved Candlebra (Nameless Voice)
- Fixed Torches, but this fixes a but and not the model (Nameless Voice)
- A possible Improved Lantern (Nameless Voice)
- Possible Victorian Table Replacements (Nameless Voice)
- Improved Crates (Nameless Voice)
- An Improved Barrel, which might require re-texturing to fit the original (Nameless Voice)
- Rope and Vine Replacements (Nameless Voice)
- Improved (?) Iron-Wood Door (Paweuek)
- Pine Tree (Schwaa)
- Skeletons and Skeleton Parts (Schwaa)
- Improved Skull (Schwaa)
- Improved Gears (Schwaa)
- Improved Bunks (Schwaa)
- Improved Torch Model (Schwaa)
- Improved Trees (Schwaa)
- Improved Rocks (Sluggs)
- Improved Safe Door (Targa)
- Improved Footlocker Textures (Targa)
- Improved Bottles (Targa)
The Well-Equipped Thief has several interesting replacement models as well, so we should contact the author about using his stuff in our improvement mod.
Last edited by G'len; 1st Jun 2005 at 13:02.
If someone's played my FM, Right up there in the Mountains, you may have noticed the gramophone, with the spinning record and handle. They need to be triggered via scripts, though. I think it looks slightly better than the original victrola, though.
Oh, one thing: the new objects should be identical to the old ones in terms of shape and size, to make sure they work properly in all situations.
So far, I've done:
table (table)
tableold (old table)
CoinsGol (gold coin stack - needs better side texture)
CoinsCop (copper coin stack - needs better side texture)
CoinsSil (silver coins stack - needs better side texture)
Bottle2 (green wine bottle)
TrBottle (fine wine bottle)
door1 (3.5x7 wooden door)
door91 (4x8 wooden door)
door2 (3.5x7 reinforced wooden door)
door92 (4x8 reinforced wooden door)
cloisgat (Cloister gate; as seen in 'Hazelshade Cemetery' - but I'll have to ask for Vigil's Okay for one of his textures which I used for it.)
Some of the loot really needs redoing...
G'len: you forgot to mention Vigil's excellent objects/retextures!
Last edited by Nameless_Voice; 1st Jun 2005 at 19:20.
The problem with Vigil's textures is that they change the style of the texture. (Yes they are good though).
That's okay for use in an FM because we can easily make sure it looks right, but if all instances of the original objects are replaced via .crf modification, then we'd end up with nice but grimy lamps inside nice opulent houses:
Similarly, if an FM author retextured certain objects and just included the bitmap, an upgraded object model would either destroy its look due to different UV mapping or just ignore the texture replacement. There's no way to recognize this automatically.
I totally agree with Eshaktaar, it's better to let the FMs's authors the choice between upgrade or not objects and textures.
I don't know if it's off topic, but I would also like to see some more grouped-together objects, just like Schwaa did with books, Yandros with food and Ottoj55 with pipes. A group of bottles, for example, would be fine, just to save objects.
I don't like those grouped objects. You can't set them up so that they can be thrown around (as it would look ridiculous), so they always end up non-frobbable. Some of us like to throw bottles and things as distractions.
i've grouped pipes, gauges, some valve handles i made, things like that. designers should remember to make things like the bottle group unfrobbable. i do this one a need basis, to save on objects. i took the watchers very nice big pipes and made a 72 unit version from the 8 unit version so that i can do long pipe runs with a single object.
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