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Thread: Improving some low-quality original objects?

  1. #226
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rowena
    Things I like:... cooking stuff (but I find them a little too dark)...books (I miss the purple one)
    I agree, the pots are a little dark. I should lighten them a little near the bottom. I don't have any suitable source photographs for the purple LC book.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rowena
    Apple(why a green one?), cheese(I almost can't see the holes), pipes(patched repetitive texture).
    Because the original one is, in fact, a tomato (look at the texture - it's called tomato.gif). But the reason I made a green one was because I don't have any red apples in the house... (Maybe I should just change the Hue?)
    I agree that the cheese needs work.
    The pipes may not look good, but they do look like the original ones. An FM author is free to use Vigil's version in their FM; the objects in this pack are supposed to look as much like the originals as possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Rowena
    Also I think that the old wood stuff is too dark.
    Armiore - the new one just isn't the same object, I really loved the old historiated one.
    Fancy bed - (I'm not speaking for myself here, because I created 6 different textures for it in my new FM), I don't like it at all, the round shape of the "columns" is inappropriate, the wood colour is too light, the bedspread seems just right for the kids room. Sorry if is sounds harsh, but I really don't like it.
    I'll look into these. Anyone willing to have a go at recreating that old-style armoire?
    I rather like the bed, myself... I might see about tweaking it a little though; maybe darkening the textures and making it a little squarer.

    Finally, I'd like to make a point: I am no good at actually making textures from scratch, so I'm limited to using things that I can photograph as the base for them.

    Any comment on the 'rust' textures?

    Final word on argument: I'm making this package. I want to make the objects in it look as much like the the originals as possible, only more detailed. So long as the objects/textures as faithfull to the old ones, there should be few complaints. If you feel that an object or texture is too different, let me know, and I'll consider fixing it.
    Last edited by Nameless_Voice; 13th Sep 2005 at 17:27.

  2. #227
    I think the rusty door texture is too dark. It's used right at the start of Running Interference, and when I get into the butler's room, the two doors leading into the manor are both pitch black. The flat shading might also be responsible for that.
    Correction: I checked the original doors in Running Interference, and they are just as dark. Some of the rivets have their shadows too far away, though, which makes it look as if they were floating off the door. If you don't mind, I'll try to remake the texture according to the new model.

    While Garrett's new sword certainly looks very nice it strikes me as being way too fancy for a practical weapon. I have the same feeling for the weapon display case, which looks great but rather out of place when found in a City Watch station.

    What I like very much are the wooden doors whose carvings are now actually 3D.

    I can try helping out with some of the textures, if you like.
    Last edited by Eshaktaar; 14th Sep 2005 at 13:50.

  3. #228
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    Time for my two penny worth.

    I think NV is getting some very negative comments here given all the hard work he has put into this project and I am glad to see he is unbowed and will continue regardless. Although I can understand why authors are concerned about protecting their work (and God is it hard work!), I think it is unfair to criticize this project before seeing the results in game. Once the pack has been finished and is in beta is the time to voice this type of criticism IMHO. From what I have seen NV's work here is excellent though I haven't had time to look at the latest release.

    Author's lose control of their work once it has been downloaded by an individual. I would suggest that any author who still objects to the pack once it has been completed should make it clear on these fora that they would prefer people not to use it for their particular work. It is then up to the individual to comply or not as they see fit.

  4. #229
    The pack currently is in beta, as NV stated himself, and that is why people are airing their opinions about what they like and don't like in the current pack. There's a link to the zip somewhere on the former pages.

    I think it's necessary that we are criticising the pack's content honestly and without beating around the bush. Criticism is not meant as a discouragement here but as an aim to get the best results possible. Clearly NV won't be able to please everyone, but we might as well try to find a compromise most people here are happy with.

  5. #230
    Here's my version of the RustD2 texture (using the standard Thief palette):



    Ingame shot of the texture (from left to right: original with old door model, NV, mine):




    NV, if it's to your liking, you can use it. If you prefer your own, no harm done

    Something I noticed is that the flat shading of the improved door21 model sometimes causes parts of the door to be lighted brighter than others (e.g. the first door at the start of Running Interference). Phong probably looks better in this case, if it doesn't take too much away from the door's angularity.

  6. #231
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I think your door looks nicer but I'm not sure I should use it since all the other dark rusty metal textures look like my door now. In truth, I used one 'base' 512x512 texture (a modified version of a texture from Lemog textures), and made high-detail 3D models of the doors (with real rivets, etc) and used a screenshot of those as the textures. Did you base yours on a 'flat metal sheet' image, because maybe I could rebuild all the textures using that texture as a base?

    Regarding the weapons: look at the ones in Morrowind; they're all that over-fancy! I made Constantine's Sword even more elaborate, but since that's a once-off sword it works out properly. A pity the default T1/TG gamesys doesn't use a different arm for it.

    Also, I'd like to say that all of the criticism I've recieved is constructive, and I agree with most of it (but of course not all of it) to some extent. Please complain more!

    I've lightened up the pot/pan and dark wood textures a bit, I think they look much better now. Also fixed some UV mapping problems on the tables' legs.
    (Pot/pan texture is also based on that dark rusty door base texture...)

    I must admit that you're right about the pipes, Lady Rowena. Although they are mapped very similarly to the originals, they do have too many texture repeats. But those are not my objects... feel like some UV Mapping, R Soul?

  7. #232
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Pushing my luck with Dromed
    When I UV mapped the new pipes I wanted to give the texture a crisper look (more pixels per area) but I'm not very good with texturing and the defaults are very small. I always thought they were un-detailed enough for repetitions to be hard to see.

    If someone could provide some decent sized replacments I could give it a go. Bigger texture = more crispness + less repeating =

  8. #233
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Eshaktaar
    Here's my version of the RustD2 texture (using the standard Thief palette):
    Nice, but not nearly rusty enough. I've really gotten used to that signature pinkish rust on the original texture.

  9. #234
    The base texture I used for the door is this one: goblinmetal

    There are several more layers of different materials to make it look a bit "grittier", though (random scratches & smudges). Since I've already got the basic ground layer, I could try my hand at the other doors, as well, if you don't mind me redoing textures you've already made.
    Edit: Since the other doors don't use the same base material either, it's not much of a problem to have several types of rusts, I think.

    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane
    Nice, but not nearly rusty enough. I've really gotten used to that signature pinkish rust on the original texture.
    Hm, adding more rust to these spots shouldn't be much of a problem. I'm not sure if aiming for the same pinkish color will look good on a larger texture, though.

    Update: Here's a new version with pinkish rust added at the same spots as in the original:

    Last edited by Eshaktaar; 15th Sep 2005 at 16:51.

  10. #235
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    NV, not that you probably need more to do, but the original gravestones could probably look better.

  11. #236
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    My dark rusty metal door texture was too rusty, and the rust was too red. Plus that 'hit by a bomb' effect ZB pointed out. I've just made another, much nicer version (and also fixed that floating-shadow bug), but after some consideration I still think Eshaktaar's texture looks better.



    As I said before, the problem is that there are a few textures which are all of a similar style, for the enhanced versions of which I used the same base texture. These textures are:
    RustD2.gif (The metal door texture in question)
    RustD4.gif
    DoorKeep.gif
    DoorHam.gif
    DoorHam2.gif
    DoorSew1.gif
    DoorSew2.gif
    DoorSli.gif
    CloistGt.gif

    Since I've already made these textues, maybe it would be easier to just throw in that base texture and at least see how they come out before you spend hours making new ones. I'll try that later.
    Also, nice texture site there. I'll have to grab some of those - one can never have too many textures... (I only have 4GB)

    As I've said often enough, one set of textures which I feel really need improving are the Ramirez wood textures (Cab*.gif) and the armoire. I'm not up to drawing it by hand, and I can't find a photograph of anything that looks quite right for them.


    Good to hear from you again, Schwaa! I did notice that some of those gravestones were very low quality while making Hazeleshade Cemetery. At the very least, the round ones should have a few more sides.
    Not sure if I have the skill to improve the textures, though.
    Last edited by Nameless_Voice; 17th Sep 2005 at 10:00.

  12. #237
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Just speaking for myself, I'd like Esh's texture better if the rivets didn't have the long shadows on them. The enhanced rust looks really nice though.

  13. #238
    Ah, they're not supposed to be shadows, they're smudges like these:
    http://www.easel3d.net/portfolio/htm..._s1_rivets.jpg

    From a distance they can look like shadows, though, so I might tone them down a little.

  14. #239
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Finland, Earth
    Make them greener and it would work better I think. Also, some white streaky stains would be very effective too, though I suppose not in keeping with the original door.
    Why not redo the door model to give it actual indented panels while you're at it? It's such a simple shape that it would be silly not to put in the extra effort. With careful skinmapping it would even be compatible with the older textures.

    Also Esh, I'm curious: that metal looks almost exactly like the one used as a base for the Unreal Tournament menu screen, where did it come from?

  15. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigil
    Why not redo the door model to give it actual indented panels while you're at it?
    NV's new door model already does have indented panels, it's just hard to see in the screenshots. It's still compatible with the old model, as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Vigil
    Also Esh, I'm curious: that metal looks almost exactly like the one used as a base for the Unreal Tournament menu screen, where did it come from?
    Good eye, Vigil! I checked UT's title screen, and it is indeed based on the same texture. I couldn't find the base itself (or any other textures based on it) in any of UT's standard texture packs, though, so I don't know where it initially came from.
    Edit #1: It's one of 3ds max's standard metal texures, apparently, although the one I found in the map/metal directory (PLATEOX2.JPG) is smaller.

    Edit #2: Here's version 3 with the stains toned down:

    Last edited by Eshaktaar; 18th Sep 2005 at 10:52.

  16. #241
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Does anyone recognise this texture?

    Hint: Obj\Txt16\BurlWo1.gif


    Here's a shot of one of the other doors I've rebuilt using Esh's base. What do you think?

  17. #242
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Pushing my luck with Dromed
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless_Voice
    Does anyone recognise this texture?
    lol LGS used the internet

    I think that door looks nice but the key is too bright.
    The inside of the keyhole should have the metal texture inside it (perhaps a bit darker), because it's not really a hole.

  18. #243
    Interesting, that's another one of 3ds max's standard textures (maps\Wood\BURLOAK.JPG).

    The new Keeper door looks fine, I think. In the original the keyhole is more silvery, though, and both the key & keyhole look a bit more threedimensional.

  19. #244
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    I agree the key is far too bright for such a rusty door...

  20. #245
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros
    I agree the key is far too bright for such a rusty door...
    Okay... I'll see about darkening it a little. ("More 3D"? How can you get more 3D than a rendering of a 3D key?)

    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul
    If someone could provide some decent sized replacments I could give it a go.
    I've already made improved versions of those textures; they were included in the latest beta/demo.

    I suspect that Obj\Txt16\OldWood.gif is somehow based on OldWood.jpg from 3D Studio Max too, but can't quite see which part they used.
    Last edited by Nameless_Voice; 19th Sep 2005 at 19:26.

  21. #246
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    i've been finding a lot of textures used in various games from different companies, after some looking i've found textures out of the photoreal pack in farcry, half life 2, and hitman 2, i've also found some textures in common in these games. perhaps they are being found on the internet, or bought in a package from some company.

  22. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless_Voice
    ("More 3D"? How can you get more 3D than a rendering of a 3D key?)
    Nevertheless, the key currently looks like somebody went over it with a steamroller. How about adding some bevel/emboss to it, like this?


  23. #248
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I'll have to see about tweaking that one.

    In the mean time, does this apple look more like the proper Thief tomato?

  24. #249
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: UK, Suffolk
    NV, it looks more like a peach. The light on the cucumber looks good though.

  25. #250
    Considering the red original, I'd imagine the apple to look something like this, possibly without any green. Image-googling "red apple" gives some nice examples.

    The cucumber is well done. Is it new or the one already included in the latest beta?

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