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Thread: Improving some low-quality original objects?

  1. #251
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless_Voice
    In the mean time, does this apple look more like the proper Thief tomato?
    Stop calling it a tomato. Sure, the texture name is tomato.gif, but that's irrelevant. Jorge doesn't look like a Swedish man either.

    When you pick one up, the text on the screen says "Apple". And when you eat it, it crunches in exactly the way that tomatoes don't. Therefore it's an apple.

  2. #252
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The cucumber texture is new, it was taken from that website where you found goblinmetal.jpg.
    I also found the apple texture there, and though I might try slapping it onto my apple model, but after some thought I think it looks more like a nectarine.
    So I'll stick with the green one for now.

    ZB: Ah, the power of suggestion. The label says apple, therefore it must be an apple.
    My theory is that LGS originally made it as a tomato (probably from a tomato photograph), then said: "Hey, it looks enough like an apple that people probably wouldn't notice. Let's label it apple."
    But if you insist, I'll call it 'the old apple' instead.
    Last edited by Nameless_Voice; 25th Sep 2005 at 14:29.

  3. #253
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: The Kingdom of Prester John

  4. #254
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Location: Virginia, USA
    Tomatos did not exist in Europe until the 16th century. Having a tomato in Thief would be an anachronism.

    Okay, whatever...

  5. #255
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    but thief isn't based in Europe, isn't it a fantasy "thief universe"? So I think that whatever the FM maker invents CAN exist in the thief universe....Unless they start getting crazy with M-16's and AK-47's. I think that I'll let a simple tomato slip...

  6. #256
    Quote Originally Posted by Gestalt

    This is a bunch of pixels on your screen which represent a picture of a picture of a pipe.

    ie, everyone shut up about the tomatos!

    Well played =)

  7. #257
    Registered: Nov 2005

    Sorry that this isnt some productive post for this thread...

    Well my prob is that seemingly im too stupid to install the pack...

    The readme says that I should install all the stuff into the "install folder"....Well Im not sure....

    does it mean the location where the game is installed OR the Game Folder which can be found on the CDs....NOT the intalled game.... ?

    Does it need to copy all the install files from the CD to the HDD, modify the textures and then install it?

    Or just replacing the textures in my Thief ame Folder?

    I ask because for instance there isnt any motions.cfg file in the game folder but in the install I thought that I have to modify not just the game folder but the install folder and then install it with this one,,,

  8. #258
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    I presume you place the files in the indicated folders ie. the .bins in the obj folder, the .gifs in the txt16 folder in your thief folder.

  9. #259
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Just extract the zip into you main Thief GAME folder, the one where the game is installed to. Make sure to extract using folder names.

    You do not need to modify any files manually.

  10. #260
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    The original folders of these names are in your Thief>Res folder, it contains zip files of these names.

    When new folders are placed in your Thief folder they override the zips (Thief reads them first)

    So the Res folder does have a motions folder in it.

    Anyway, your post indicates that a pack is already available? When did i miss that post, I'll look at the first post, but 11 pages to search... I thought this was more of a wrok in progress thread.

  11. #261
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Quote Originally Posted by Vigil
    Looks fucking fantastic, actually. Great job, Eshaktaar.
    Also, I doubt the thing about the rivets will occur to many people - it didn't occur to me until you mentioned it.
    This is funny, when I first made a custom torch someone stated that "It has rivets, they didn't have rivets back then"
    Rivets are a pretty simple way to hold things together with metal, if they had machines, why not rivets huh?

    Anyway, just ran across this looking for a Dl link.

    To put in my list which is still pretty small and not yet 100% ready to go:

    Furniture, I've been redoing just about all of the furniture objects and giving them 2-4 opening drawers/doors. Only one can be used per concrete obj, but that's a Dromed limit. But you can have one drawer open in one room and another open in the next room.
    I'm using all original textures, while they don't look that great, if someone does redo the original exactly (scale/spacing) they will be fine.

    If they redo the barrell tex like Vigil did though, and change the placement of the bands, then it will not match. Also as far as textures go, I'll use the barrell from Vigil again (sorry, it is a good tex) but it is really grungy, that's fine for a grungy barrell, but there should be new stuff in Thief too, like the original barrell. That's why they made a rotten barrell tex. So now every barrell looks like its 5-10 years old.

    Sorry NV, but I gotta say, I really don't like the 'lime' apple. i like red ones better.

  12. #262
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The EP beta can be grabbed here:
    There are also two demos (Jason should really remove the first one, it's a waste of space) that allow you to swap between old and new models at an inv frob, handy to see the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwaa2
    Sorry NV, but I gotta say, I really don't like the 'lime' apple. i like red ones better.
    The one I posted a screen of, or the one that's in the EP?
    As I said before, the fact of the matter is that I didn't have any apples that look like the Thief one (I prefer green apples), so I only photographed what I had. If anyone wants to supply a good red apple texture...?

  13. #263
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Well, I ofund the link to the EP#1, half Dled it and found the link to #2.

    Installed it and started playing Simple Enough again since i didn't remmeber it, off topic, now I do remember and it was fun, I got half way thru without saving then died so I'll probably wait awhile.

    Anyway, it was a good mission for a test, it used alot of things you replaced.

    Things i saw that I liked:
    wood door with crossbeam (great improvement)
    carrots, cuke
    health potion, while not totally athentic looking, a nice model and I like the change.
    regular wine bottle
    Money purse (I've been wanting to do that for quite awhile)
    EDIT_Now that I played the Demo#2 to see everything I think you did a pretty good job altogether...

    things i didn't for reason listed:
    Gold wine bottle, shouldn't be transparent, it's gold.
    Although there's no reason not to have a transparent yellow bottle in game.
    green apple, sorry, I don't have a tex. I first saw it on a balcony in
    Saints/Thieves. It's just too bright, I thought it was a lime.
    Also, I could see the square edged polys, needs to be alot rounder.
    I think this also applied to the wine bottles, as they turn I could see one
    really square part at the top, maybe bad optimizing.
    Cheese, although yours has more polys, it probably needs the smooth
    modifire removed, Light seems to bleed over the top to the sides, and the
    original tex was better, looked like swiss. Your's looks like brie (or is it brei?)
    Crate of hammers, I actually liked the old one better, the polygons on top didn't show as much, so the hammer texture was more effective, with the new polys added it breaks the illusion because the new polys don't fit the shape of the hammers but catch light weird.
    I think that one would be better with the original polys on top, and maybe a few hammers sticking out matching the ones in the texture.

    The purple vases(loot), models are much better, but i think they should retain a purple instead of red hue.

    The rolling pin jumps 1/2 foot to the side. and you'd probalbe get lower polys and better looking sides if the handles were actually seperate and the polys on the sides of the roller were one circle instead of a donut. I bet you'd save 20 polys.

    Also, the small grey junk bottle, while alot rounder, the taper to the neck is square edged instead of a taper. So I actually like the original better.

    Some weird mapping on wood objs, like bench, table, ect...
    the planar mapping on legs is really apparent, can see the tex stretch, box mapping would be better. Also, the table legs tile twice.

    Really small potatoes (there's something Thief doesn't have), I'll take a look at the demo though, it'll be easier to see everything that way.edit-- I guess I have Demo 2, I just unzipped it, I'll run thru Darkloader.
    Also, i noticed that the Demo was your objs only(3.5MB), the Ep zip was 8MB. So does the EP zip have everyone's files? If so I can send you my furniture files. mainly for now i have:
    Victorian Hutch-improved uv mapping, 2 opening doors with handles
    armchest- improved uvmapping, improved model (not in gamesys, but used alot in Simple Enough)
    Money Box- I can remap my jewelry box to have same tex if needed, both the current ones have stock textures anyway. Better model, lock and handle included. (I always hated picking a box with no lock)
    Ramirez desk- added handles to drawer/doors. One open drawer, one door.
    DeskSec not in gamesys- I know you've alreay done this one too, I improved the mapping and have a drawer and door that open.

    Office Desk, need to remap...
    i'm also improving the vases, large decor ones, they are sooo boxy.
    Last edited by Schwaa2; 25th Nov 2005 at 13:46.

  14. #264
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Well, here's the stuff I've done so far, had some time today so I did a few simple objs:

    ramirez desk
    Victorian hutch
    desksec, all with jointed doors/drawers

    spotlight and wallspotlight, jointed bases so you can get correct anlges

    improved sewer light, glasses, bunsen (with VHOT), decor vases, all keys improved

    forgot to include armchest...

    Anyone can grab these and drop 'em in thiefII/obj folder. they override the originals but the jointed objs can be set-up for missions in progress. Want to put a brush inside a Victorian hutch? now you can.

    NV, please include 'em in your pack. I tried to do models that hadn't been done yet. There's not much left apart from AI's.

    I'm going to work on new metal furniture for my current mission, although it probably won't be too close to mech stuff, I might make it so that it can replace that stuff if desired.

  15. #265
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    First of all, I upgraded quite a few of my models between the second demo and the 'beta' demo - the UV mapping on the table legs for one thing - so you should check that out.

    Haven't really done anything on this stuff in quite a while. I'll probably get around to working on the models some more when I have some spare time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schwaa2
    Gold wine bottle, shouldn't be transparent, it's gold.]
    No, it's not. It's supposed to be fine wine; it's just gold-coloured to make it look more like loot.
    Remember, in Framed Garrett says "Ah, my favourite year" when you look at the bottle of fine wine in the tavern; can't see much difference between years in gold...

    Yes, the apple needs a better texture, but I haven't come across one yet. Same with the cheese.
    The cork in the bottles is actually very low-poly, I guess I could make it a little rounder.

  16. #266
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    I wasn't talking bout the cork, that's fine. It's the taper between the bottle body and neck. When it spins it looks round part of the way, then there looks to be a very square edged poly at one point.

    I don't mind the apple tex so much, main just the green color. You should (IMO) just change the hue to red.

    I actually did DL the beta after the others, but can't say I looked again at the table legs.

    Probably the biggest/most annoying thing I saw in the pack was the door handles. Not sure who made 'em but...
    They rotate off center, so by the time they are unlocked they sit about an inch from the side of the door, looks weird, although I like the models.
    Also one door with alot of diamonds on it (modeled in) is missing a tex, it's all white in game.

    Far as my stuff goes, I'm going to try 'flat' shading on the desksec. Now that I see it in other levels the shading around the drawer is screwy. Of course Eshaktaar just pointed out that all my smoothing in max was for no reason, it's either Flat or (phong-in efile) Gourand according to him.
    And i saw a problem with the walspot in Simple Enough. In the gamesys there are 2 walspots, I think only one has joint props, but niether model has joints.
    So the one with joint props contuinues to rotate all the time, I have to pull the joint from one. I've been looking for otehr stuff while playing FM's too, finding quite a few items that could be upgraded. I'll work on what I can when I can.

  17. #267
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Argh, adjusting all those door handles is a fair bit of work...
    I'd spotted the missing door tex, have it fixed in my local copy.

    Some comments about your objs:

    Bunsen Burner, Sewer light, Vases, Wall spotlight
    These are very good, they're definitely going in.

    These are really good, but I don't quite like the texture around the face; I'm not sure if its the UV mapping or just the fact that the original T1 texture is rubbish.

    These are good, but they're a little too big. They should be resized to better match the originals.

    The outside texture doesn't repeat often enough horizontally, and is also upside-down (though perhaps it looks better upside down?).

    There's a crack in the polys below the drawer, you can see through the obj.

    Ramirez Desk
    This looks a little too different from the original, and still needs new textures.

    Victorian Hutch
    The UV mapping in the section between the two cupboards looks a little odd stretched like that (compare: original). Also, the UV mapping on the sides of the marble section is bad, needs to be adjusted a little so it's not only using a 1-pixel strip of the texture.

    PS: I forgot to mention that the rolling pin moving is a problem with the Change Object Model receptron; it should be fine under normal circumstances.

  18. #268
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    yeah, i just uesd the original key tex, figured that way someone could improve it and they'd look better. we really do need a good texture artist who is sic and wants to redo every texture in game any takers?

    I made the glasses a little bigger on purpose, maybe 10%. the originals really look to small to fit a head. I've played thru a level that had glasses already (the den) and they are right where they need to be. I tested that specifically before hand too.

    I actually looked at the old spotlight at the same time I textured the new one and thought it was pretty close, also I'm sure it's not upside doodle.

    i didn't notice the crack in the bureas, I'll take a look. it does need flat mapping applied too, it doesn't look real hot in game (see 'the den')

    i could add the same tex all the way around the ramirez desk like the original, i didn't think it looked that good though, but with a better tex, that one is cr@p. (good design, just so pixelated)

    I look at the hutch, i stretched it so it wouldn't be squashed in there (marble sides, I didn't notice that being too stretched.) The middle part I did stretch on purpose too, if that tex is mapped like the original you get an a handle on the side of a flat piece of wood, i stretched to get rid of the handle. I guess I could fit it like originally, but that handle there looks odd. Other than redoing that tex, and aceing the handle, I thought this was the best action to take.

    i don't know, original mapping with handle, or stretched without?

  19. #269
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Southquarter
    The improved golden key seems to "dive" a bit into terrain and some objects when put on them.

  20. #270
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    I'll look into that key, after about 15 of them i was getting pretty tired and slightly confused.

  21. #271
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless_Voice
    These are good, but they're a little too big. They should be resized to better match the originals.
    Are you sure they aren't supposed to be big? Thief does have two sizes of glasses. I don't know if it's just the same model scaled or what, but IIRC the big glasses are loot, while the small glasses are junk.

  22. #272
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: Notlob
    They are the small ones not the loot ones. See picture.

  23. #273
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Which is ironic 'cause the small ones look good and the big loot ones look like junk. But they are only slightly bigger, just enough to look like they would actually fit an Ai's head, maybe not even big enough for that, but closer.

    I never did understand why those loot ones looked like those giant plastic clown glasses you can buy.

  24. #274
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I wrote this ages ago, must have forgot to post it. It's still relevant, though, so I'll do so now:


    With the exception of the standard non-valuable vase (which looks a tiny bit odd), all the original object models look perfectly in order with the EP textures installed.

    Not so with the new objects using only the original textures; I get quite a number of Jorge surfaces when I hide the Txt16 folder, since the new objects sometimes use more maps than the old ones. There's also a few which needlessly use custom-named textures, such as the gold vases, gold/purple goblet, and the Lost City jars. I should fix these.

    Vigil: It's actually quite simple to fix the joint setup on the sea chest. Simply rotate the lock handle in the model by 90°, so that it's pointing downwards by default.
    Once that's done, it's a simple matter to change the joint order and rescale the object. I'd do it, but that object won't convert back from .bin -> .3ds properly, and only you have the original .3ds file.

    - NV

  25. #275
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    i know this is an old topic, but i was starting to go through the pack, the corpse for the crate models still use the old textures, i'll fix that one up myself soon.

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