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Thread: Useful changes to your Gamesys

  1. #26
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    try this experiment. take a blunt stick and jab it into your head as hard as you can and tell me that it doesn't hurt. i don't care if the crystals are glass, or plastic, shatter, pop, or magiacally disappear, the point is that there is a shaft behind it and its moving pretty fast, thats the source of the damage.

  2. #27
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Pain != damage. By your logic, a game of paintball should be fatal.

    Besides which, the guards are wearing armor. Broadhead arrows are designed to penetrate, but it seems reasonable to assume that elemental arrows simply shatter.

  3. #28
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    what part of HIT IN THE HEAD don't you understand zylon, i swear you are illiterate sometimes. but to respond, you are wrong, not everyone in thief is wearing armor on their entire body. further, a well made set of chain armor from the middle ages was actually capable of stopping a long bow arrow, though with considerable bruising, not unlike a kevlar vest today. even without the point on the arrow it should be possible to cause a considerable amount of pain with an untipped shaft. so before you pipe up again zylon just remember that you are always wrong and that your opinion, as well as your presence in this and any other discussion isn't welcomed.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Gloucester, UK
    Well, we can settle the whole arrow business with a compromise. Set them up to dish out a bash stim of ZERO. That makes AI's recoil and go 'oof!' without actually dealing any damage.
    Rob

  5. #30
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoj55
    what part of HIT IN THE HEAD don't you understand
    Thief doesn't recognize the concept of head shots. In the absence of this feature, all damage must be treated as a torso shot.

    you are wrong, not everyone in thief is wearing armor
    I didn't say everyone is. I said guards are.


    Rob, that would be pretty cool. Like I said, guards should definitely recognize getting hit by elemental arrows. I just think it's absurd to be able to KILL someone with a water arrow. In some RPGs this issue is explicitly addressed in various ways, to prevent silliness like being able to kill an elephant with a pointy stick, or a squad of spearmen from sinking an aircraft carrier.

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    I agree with Zylon completely. By making them do damage, you're altering the intent of the arrow as it created and balanced for the gameplay.

    Rob had a great idea with the bash stim of Zero. That would be perfect.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Zombies shouldn't need to breath (set Drown Damage to 0.00)

    All AIs should have 'Head' as their Vision Joint.

    Sword/blackjack should have Weapon->Collides With Terrain: True

    Set up correct flinders for old crate flinders, barrels, explosive barrels, etc.


    - Things to add:

    Moveable Banners (See NVGizmos)
    Frob-light candles (see my tutorial)

  8. #33
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Can the spiders who see out their butt be fixed?

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: IL USA
    You may want to add this one to your list.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: UK
    Two new traps:

    ConversationTrap
    TextureTrap (replaces textures)

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    Can the spiders who see out their butt be fixed?
    They can? Which ones?

  12. #37
    They only see with their butts when they're standing still: Their idle motion makes them turn around occasionally, and when they're facing the other way, their eyes are still focused forward. Kinda hard to fix without totally changing the spiders' idle motion.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Ottawa, Canada
    I just think it's absurd to be able to KILL someone with a water arrow. In some RPGs this issue is explicitly addressed in various ways, to prevent silliness like being able to kill an elephant with a pointy stick, or a squad of spearmen from sinking an aircraft carrier.
    Is it then absurd to knock a guard out by hitting him in the butt?
    But I guess one of the things lacking in regards to the AI is the lack of hit points.
    In any case, it's highly probable that a well placed shot with any arrow would kill or at the very least cause some damage, but in keeping within the constraints of this engine and it's physics, It can appear otherwise.

    *Pointy sticks are prolly what them hunters used in the beginning.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Ottawa, Canada
    Pain != damage. By your logic, a game of paintball should be fatal.
    Yes...there have been reported deaths by paintballs and paintball gun accessories.

  15. #40
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    There have been reported deaths from all sorts of stupid things. The extreme ends of the probability curve should never be taken as a rule of thumb.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    Enough of this pointless argument. The Thief concept is not realistic nor was it meant to be. Water arrows, gas arrows and moss arrows are just fantasy elements so attempting to make sense of them in the real world is of no value. If Ottoj55 wants them to cause damage in his mission then so be it (though I can't imagine many will follow him).

    In real life people don't have hit points; it makes no sense that guards etc are as fast and strong whether they have all their health or just one hit point left. Thief is fun, the gameplay is fun, if it was realistic it would be dull. No?

    This thread has totally gone off the point....

  17. #42
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Dude
    Enough of this pointless argument. The Thief concept is not realistic nor was it meant to be.
    Fantasy genre conceits aside, Thief is VERY realistic compared to its FPS peers.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Stuck in some sticky mud, nope quicksand
    The condition on servants is wrong, their default for investigate should be 'don't investigate', and to flee to the nearest guard if something suspicious heard too often and/or if they see the player. It which point they should inform the guard, and the guard should run to the last place the player was seen, then start searching.
    This exists in thief dark, but was removed in thief 2.
    Servants should also not attack you, but run to the nearest guard as they have the weapons.
    Flee locations should exist on standing guards, not knocked out ones, or a location where there should be a guard. eg the servant in 'life of the party' if you knocked out the servant in the kitchen that recieves the message that another servant has seen an intruder, the servant who delivers the message, still delivers it to an empty space even thou the other servant isn't there.
    so fleepoint should be in a metaproperty that can be added to an AI, that is removed when knockout stim triggered.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2004
    Location: Ottawa, Canada
    When I said hit points...I mean the various places on an AI that can cause damage..Many games utilize this, but unfourtunately Thief doesn't....I think.


    if it was realistic it would be dull. No?
    Nah..real can be fun.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war

    A few more things:

    Some archetypes have incorrect material tags:
    Many things under Physical > Furniture > Chair > VictorianChairs need the MatCarpet metaproperty. For some things it's obvious, but there are some chairs that are a combination of wood and fabric, so change the materials at your own discretion (they way I see it, players are more likey to jump onto a chair that hit it with a weapon, so most things should be MatCarpet).

    Physical > Household > Kitchen
    Pan and Jar need the MatMetal metaproperty. They currently inherit MatWood, which is needed for many of the other objects.
    Knife and ButcherKnife should probably be Metal as well.


    Throwing things
    Certain types of player were disappointed that in Thief 2 you could no longer throw around the metal kitchen jars, and no doubt that you couldn't stack them

    Edit the Physical > Household > Kitchen > Jar archeytpe and Add the following properties:
    Engine Features > FrobInfo (WroldAction: Move; ToolAction: Move)

    Physics > Model > Attributes (Just click on OK, the default values are probably fine)

    Physics > Model > Controls (Deselect 'Location' & 'Rotation')

    Physics > Model > Type (Change Type to 'Sphere', leave the other things alone)


    If you want to be able to throw pans around as well as jars, you can add the above properties to the Jar archeytpe, or make Pan a child of Jar so it inherits.

    With 'TallPan' and 'Skillet', the Rest Axes in their Physics > Attributes property should only include +Z and -Z.


    All Pans and Jars have rather generic object names, so you could change them and add relevant entries in Strings\objnames.str

  21. #46
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    I thought the kitchen jars were supposed to be ceramic, or some form of stoneware. Metal would be highly unusual.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war
    They look like metal.

    And I've got metal jars in my real-world kitchen.

  23. #48
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    i think that the barrels should have obb physics not sphere, they don't move when player collides with them, but they don't inherit the player walk through them bug either. there are also a lot of maw textures in the vmaw family that as far as i can tell don't have a material schema, so they are silent.

  24. #49
    The frobbable skulls are set up wrong: When you want to throw them, you have to click twice before they leave your hands. Their FrobInfo Tool Action is set to Move whereas it should be [None].

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Constantly losing tug o'war
    There are three archetypes under Physical > Container > Chest that need a little tweak, or tweq if you like

    The doors/lids of Safe, VicHopeCheast and LC_Chest will only open when the objects are on screen. (Try looking away from the object for a while before it's fully closed/opened. No matter how long you wait it'll only finish when you look at it again)

    To fix this, open the archetype for each of the objects (you can't do this to Chest because the chideren don't inherit)
    Edit the Tweq > Joints property and from the button next to Joint1AnimC, select 'Sim' (This tells the joint to keep 'moving' regardless of whether or not the object is on screen).

    Remeber to do this for all three archetypes.


    ---------------------

    Physical > Container > MoneyBox has two instances of the 'Container' script, which causes the 'locked' sound plays twice at the same time.

    Delete the Scripts property from the MoneyBox archetype. It will still inherit the 'Container' script from its parent archetype.
    Last edited by R Soul; 16th Jul 2005 at 20:21.

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